The App Store, Spotify, and Europe's thriving digital music market • Hacker News Board

Re: The App Store, Spotify, and Europe's thriving digital music market

#41

Post by tambourine_man » Mon, Mar 04, 2024, 4:34 PM UTC

ghusto wrote: post #31

tambourine_man wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have 70% of Android global market share. It offers more choices of devices, price points and a less restrictive OS. There's almost nothing you can do on an iPhone that you can't on an Android. Conversely, there are plenty of things that the more open Android platform allows that iOS doesn't. And yet, despite all of that, some people still prefer to buy iPhones. I think it's their choice to make.

I didn't buy an iPhone because of the "security" that the restrictions give me, and I suspect few others who jumped ship from Android to iPhone did either. I switched because the iPhone does what I need it to do, and then gets out of the way. It works as I need it to with my Mac, and is for the most part intuitive and well thought out. I would prefer it if I could install what I wanted from where I wanted, but it's a…

> allowing me to do so would not undermine any of the value I've pointed out.

That’s a hard claim to make. The “just works”, “gets out of your way”, nature is very much helped by a closed and restrictive ecosystem.

Re: The App Store, Spotify, and Europe's thriving digital music market

#42

Post by jerojero » Mon, Mar 04, 2024, 4:39 PM UTC

tambourine_man wrote: post #19

andreime wrote: post #8

Apple fights hard to not allow users to install from other sources on devices they own, so they can charge rent from developers, then complains when some apps that are too big for them to control are installed from the sole app store. The solution is pretty simple, let people use the devices they own as they want; allow multiple app stores; allow people to download binaries and install on their devices.

Or, let people choose the other platform that already allows them just that. What some people may not understand is that a large percentage of Apple customers are buying iPhones because of those restrictions and not in spite of them.

This has always been such a funny argument to me. The "some" is carrying some much weight. Yeah there's a couple vocal apple users in hacker news that think a closed ecosystem is good, more private and secure, they trust Apple and they indeed have chosen the iPhone for this reason.

But more likely than not, people choose iPhone because everyone has an iPhone. People choose iPhone because when both parents have iPhones they buy their kids iPhones and then when their kids grow into young adults, well, they're already invested in the ecosystem to such a degree that it's impossible to get out.

More likely than not, they choose iPhone because iPhones are just what people think about when they think smartphone. Because Samsung phones seem "complicated".

I really doubt people even care about privacy and security. I mean, sure, if you ask them if they care they will say yes; because that's how polls work, no one wants to say they don't care and be judged. But if you were to ask people "why iPhone" I'd say the answer will be more on the lines of "because iPhone".

The modern world is made on marketing and Apple is the best company in the world at it.

Re: The App Store, Spotify, and Europe's thriving digital music market

#43

Post by lapcat » Mon, Mar 04, 2024, 4:40 PM UTC

tambourine_man wrote: post #40

lapcat wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's almost nothing you can do on an iPhone that you can't on an Android. 1. This is false. There are plenty of features and apps (including my own apps!) that are exclusive to iPhone. iMessage and iCloud for example. 2. Products are not simply lists of features. There's also something important called design . 3. Don't forget vendor hardware support, software support, and resale value. I can say, from a persona…

Regarding 1, there are plenty of alternatives to iMessage and iCloud. They are even interoperable to some degree. Essencial apps were made for Windows only back in 95-2005. Your only choice was emulation and there were no alternatives. It’s a completely different picture today. 2 and 3 are not relevant to monopoly claims.

> Regarding 1, there are plenty of alternatives to iMessage and iCloud

So? The alternatives to iMessage and iCloud are different from them in a number of ways, just like iOS and Android are different in a number of ways. They're not identical alternatives.

> 2 and 3 are not relevant to monopoly claims.

We're not discussing monopoly claims. We're discussing why people buy iPhones.

Re: The App Store, Spotify, and Europe's thriving digital music market

#44

Post by wavemode » Mon, Mar 04, 2024, 4:46 PM UTC

tambourine_man wrote: post #19

andreime wrote: post #8

Apple fights hard to not allow users to install from other sources on devices they own, so they can charge rent from developers, then complains when some apps that are too big for them to control are installed from the sole app store. The solution is pretty simple, let people use the devices they own as they want; allow multiple app stores; allow people to download binaries and install on their devices.

Or, let people choose the other platform that already allows them just that. What some people may not understand is that a large percentage of Apple customers are buying iPhones because of those restrictions and not in spite of them.

> What some people may not understand is that a large percentage of Apple customers are buying iPhones because of those restrictions and not in spite of them.

Huh?? This is an extraordinary claim, given the plain fact that if someone really doesn't want apps from 3rd-party stores on their device, they could just, you know... not install any...?

Re: The App Store, Spotify, and Europe's thriving digital music market

#45

Post by jerojero » Mon, Mar 04, 2024, 4:47 PM UTC

Aldo_MX wrote: post #12

If Apple wanted to destroy Spotify they would simply drop prices by 30%, and Spotify would be unable to compete with that pricing because of the Apple tax. Why should Apple have that much leverage? They didn't even "build the platform", they took an Open Source platform, put the Apple logo to it, and then proceeded to EEE like good old Microsoft. Apple is in the wrong here, or they charge the Apple tax to music apps,…

If only price was the only signal people used when buying or renting services.

But that's not the case. And Apple themselves know this as they charge premium prices for the brand alone.

If Apple drops their prices by 30% there's no guarantee that it would "destroy spotify" at all. For one, no one on android would think of switching to apple music anyway, the concept just seems so foreign. Second, Spotify is winning the marketing/cultural battle with their wrapped. It might sound silly but the advertisement feature of Spotify wrapped is worth a lot of money.

So what's more likely to happen if Apple drops the price? Well, I'd say they'd be locked into a PR nightmare everytime they need to raise prices because there's a precedent that the service is cheaper. They wouldn't really gain significant market share against Spotify and they would just end up leaving money on the table.

In these things, price is a component of the decision that is made, it's not really the deciding factor. Not to mention that a significantly lower price also signals "worse quality" to costumers. People might easily go "Spotify costs 3 dollars more because it is worth 3 dollars more". Because people will try to justify higher prices with higher quality even when that's not the case.

Re: The App Store, Spotify, and Europe's thriving digital music market

#46

Post by addicted » Mon, Mar 04, 2024, 5:00 PM UTC

tambourine_man wrote: post #25

lapcat wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What some people may not understand is that a large percentage of Apple customers are buying iPhones because of those restrictions and not in spite of them. Citation needed. Do you have polls or other consumer research to back this claim?

I have 70% of Android global market share. It offers more choices of devices, price points and a less restrictive OS. There's almost nothing you can do on an iPhone that you can't on an Android. Conversely, there are plenty of things that the more open Android platform allows that iOS doesn't. And yet, despite all of that, some people still prefer to buy iPhones. I think it's their choice to make.

Any evidence it’s because they prefer being prevented from installing certain apps they can get on Android?

IOW, is there any evidence that if the apps that are currently unavailable on iOS became available on iOS, iPhone sales would drop?

Re: The App Store, Spotify, and Europe's thriving digital music market

#47

Post by addicted » Mon, Mar 04, 2024, 5:02 PM UTC

tambourine_man wrote: post #41

ghusto wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't buy an iPhone because of the "security" that the restrictions give me, and I suspect few others who jumped ship from Android to iPhone did either. I switched because the iPhone does what I need it to do, and then gets out of the way. It works as I need it to with my Mac, and is for the most part intuitive and well thought out. I would prefer it if I could install what I wanted from where I wanted, but it's a…

> allowing me to do so would not undermine any of the value I've pointed out. That’s a hard claim to make. The “just works”, “gets out of your way”, nature is very much helped by a closed and restrictive ecosystem.

This can clearly be shown to be false.

People said the exact same thing for decades for why they preferred Macs over Windows.

The Mac was an extremely open ecosystem.

That did not stop it from “just work”ing or “getting out of your way”.

Re: The App Store, Spotify, and Europe's thriving digital music market

#48

Post by andreime » Mon, Mar 04, 2024, 5:02 PM UTC

tambourine_man wrote: post #19

andreime wrote: post #8

Apple fights hard to not allow users to install from other sources on devices they own, so they can charge rent from developers, then complains when some apps that are too big for them to control are installed from the sole app store. The solution is pretty simple, let people use the devices they own as they want; allow multiple app stores; allow people to download binaries and install on their devices.

Or, let people choose the other platform that already allows them just that. What some people may not understand is that a large percentage of Apple customers are buying iPhones because of those restrictions and not in spite of them.

I've heard this over and over and my follow-up question is never answered... What would change for those users? This is about ownership of your device, if you're OK with Apple's walled garden - that they apparently can change on any whims - nothing will be shoved down your throat.

Please answer.

Re: The App Store, Spotify, and Europe's thriving digital music market

#49

Post by l2dy » Mon, Mar 04, 2024, 6:25 PM UTC

> If a developer sells physical goods, serves ads in their app, or just shares an app for free, they don’t pay Apple anything.

If so, don't ask me to pay $99 every year for installing my own app on a device I bought.

Apps signed with a free developer account are severely limited with a short validity period and Apple enforces a limit on the number of apps that could be installed this way on a device.

Re: The App Store, Spotify, and Europe's thriving digital music market

#50

Post by tambourine_man » Mon, Mar 04, 2024, 7:21 PM UTC

addicted wrote: post #47

tambourine_man wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> allowing me to do so would not undermine any of the value I've pointed out. That’s a hard claim to make. The “just works”, “gets out of your way”, nature is very much helped by a closed and restrictive ecosystem.

This can clearly be shown to be false. People said the exact same thing for decades for why they preferred Macs over Windows. The Mac was an extremely open ecosystem. That did not stop it from “just work”ing or “getting out of your way”.

The Mac “just works” compared to Windows, which is a low bar.

Compared to iOS, the Mac is a complete mess, just ask any non technical user.

There's a reason why AppStores are a huge success in the mobile world and why few people dared to install anything on PCs and Macs.