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The virtuous mean between time drunkenness and work martyrdom

lessfoolish.substack.com

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Re: The virtuous mean between time drunkenness and work martyrdom

#41

Post by sph »

staplers wrote: post #18
bluefirebrand wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> spending time procrastinating is usually more time then just straight up doing it, which is less time on your own goals When it comes to employment, I've never found it actually benefits me all that much to work hard and deliver results early. And it doesn't free me up that extra time to pursue my own goals either. I don't think I'm alone in this.

https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-...

Thanks for sharing. This is such a fun and insightful article I felt it deserved its own post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39507447

Re: The virtuous mean between time drunkenness and work martyrdom

#43

Post by sibeliuss »

My colleagues would consider me a 'work martyr', but what they don't understand is that my strategy is to get everything done as fast as possible and then to significantly chill. With deadlines covered and all the details buttoned up way ahead of time, it leads to a much less stressful life.

Re: The virtuous mean between time drunkenness and work martyrdom

#44

Post by UncleOxidant »

purplerabbit wrote: post #16
zitterbewegung wrote: post #4

It’s strange that we even work more or even at the same amount of time as 100 years ago. We have systems that increase worker productivity and even software by itself for the most part should be decreasing the amount of work to be done since it’s supposedly a large force multiplier for productivity. Economists predicted we would be working less (but they are bad at predicting most things) so while there might be a fe…

I believe the purpose of life is to create possibility. If that’s true, there will never be an incentive to work less so long as there is more possibility to be created (assuming that people are living purposefully, and it seems to me that those that don’t are evolutionarily selected against)

What if there's a point where superintelligent AI is out there creating all the possibility?

Also, "creating possibility" sounds kind of like "self actualization" ie. the top of Maslow's hierarchy.

Re: The virtuous mean between time drunkenness and work martyrdom

#45

Post by UncleOxidant »

> To be time drunk means to be so “drunk” that one forgets time exists. This forgetfulness is presented as a bad thing, given its inefficiency in the market economy. However, forgetting time is the right move when it comes to sacred considerations.

But isn't the flow state also where people forget time exists? And isn't the flow state said to be the most productive state people can be in?

Re: The virtuous mean between time drunkenness and work martyrdom

#46

Post by culopatin »

UncleOxidant wrote: post #45

> To be time drunk means to be so “drunk” that one forgets time exists. This forgetfulness is presented as a bad thing, given its inefficiency in the market economy. However, forgetting time is the right move when it comes to sacred considerations. But isn't the flow state also where people forget time exists? And isn't the flow state said to be the most productive state people can be in?

But id argue that the only difference between drunk procrastination and flow state is that one is considered “productive” while the other one is considered a waste of time. If my randomly disassembling a laptop to clean it instead of tackling that hard problem at work gave me money I’d be in flow state.

Re: The virtuous mean between time drunkenness and work martyrdom

#47

Post by RHSman2 »

madaxe_again wrote: post #28

I learned these lessons the hard way. I have, through my life, oscillated from one extreme to the other - at school, this manifested as an utter indifference to lessons, preferring to read under the desk, yet a week of frantic learning in which I would absorb the year or term’s lessons. I was mostly time drunk at this point. Come graduation, I had an urgent need for income, to support both myself and family members w…

A child is the greatest gift we can give to ourselves to help us be the ‘best’ versions of ourselves. Good luck on the 2nd part of life.

Re: The virtuous mean between time drunkenness and work martyrdom

#48

Post by AlecSchueler »

klyrs wrote: post #34
jhp123 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that in 1924 people were working 84-hour weeks (including Sunday!) is preposterous. For example Ford introduced the 8-hour day at its factories in 1914.

You were responding to somebody talking about farm labor, by talking about industrial labor. I'm not gonna pick a side here, but to say that what you each present as fact is not in conflict.

They're saying that the person above was misrepresenting average working hours by choosing the farming industry to make their comparison.

Re: The virtuous mean between time drunkenness and work martyrdom

#49

Post by watwut »

jhp123 wrote: post #25
xyzelement wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

//It’s strange that we even work more or even at the same amount of time as 100 years ago. We don’t. A hundred years the average man was putting in 7 to 7 shifts on the factory or the farm. Physically exhausting, dangerous and painful labor that required your physical presence and likely left you too exhausted for anything else. Today you and I are click clacking our keyboards in a safe and air conditioned environmen…

The idea that in 1924 people were working 84-hour weeks (including Sunday!) is preposterous. For example Ford introduced the 8-hour day at its factories in 1914.

The actual origin of kindergarten were 4 years old running the streets alone - while BOTH parents worked 12 hours a day in a factory. Maybe excluding Sunday, I am not sure now. Industrial revolution was brutal on people.

Ford could introduce 8 hours long day only because 8 hours a day was far from norm at that time.

Re: The virtuous mean between time drunkenness and work martyrdom

#50

Post by mschuster91 »

xyzelement wrote: post #5
zitterbewegung wrote: post #4

It’s strange that we even work more or even at the same amount of time as 100 years ago. We have systems that increase worker productivity and even software by itself for the most part should be decreasing the amount of work to be done since it’s supposedly a large force multiplier for productivity. Economists predicted we would be working less (but they are bad at predicting most things) so while there might be a fe…

//It’s strange that we even work more or even at the same amount of time as 100 years ago. We don’t. A hundred years the average man was putting in 7 to 7 shifts on the factory or the farm. Physically exhausting, dangerous and painful labor that required your physical presence and likely left you too exhausted for anything else. Today you and I are click clacking our keyboards in a safe and air conditioned environmen…

> We don’t. A hundred years the average man was putting in 7 to 7 shifts on the factory or the farm. Physically exhausting, dangerous and painful labor that required your physical presence and likely left you too exhausted for anything else.

Historically, that is an anomaly that only started with the industrial age [1].

[1] https://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/rauch/worktime/hours_...

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