Live data from Hacker News

Life Aboard a Nuclear Submarine

vanityfair.com

41–50 of 61 posts

Re: Life Aboard a Nuclear Submarine

#41
post #6
post #4

> The military’s rationale for offering us access seemed clear. The brass, apparently, wanted to help get Americans accustomed to the increasingly real prospect of conflict with a genuinely powerful opponent. They wanted to humanize the otherwise inhuman—some would say inhumane—reality of nuclear deterrence. And, finally, they wanted to convey a message to China and Russia about US forces and their strategic capabili…

Doesn't this project weakness? Is there any reason to believe China or Russia have had doubts about US capabilities that this would now... resolve?

It's interesting because when it comes to submarines and related nuclear deterrence the US are at least a head in front compared to the Russians (and obviously much more advanced compared to the Chinese), unlike the other two forms of deterrence (land-based and aerial).

The Russians themselves are aware of that gap and have started to try and close it, they've just launched two new nuclear submarines recently [1] and others are on their way.

[1] https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2023/12/12/putin-views-rus...

Re: Life Aboard a Nuclear Submarine

#42
These articles come up every so often and they're always a little strange as a former submariner.

Firstly, they're always aboard US boomers, which are immensely spacious by submarine standards (lol'd at "The ship seemed cramped, with narrow passageways."). You can walk two-abreast in some US boomer passageways, a completely unheard of feat on any other class of sub. They also have relatively relaxed, predictable schedules, with deployments rarely lasting more than 3 months. It's easy to say you've got good food when you're not rationing beans because the 4 month deployment became a 5 1/2 month deployment.

Secondly, one of the core social divides in the US submarine force is between members of the engineering department ("nukes", also A-gangers, though they exist in a sort of limbo) and everyone else on the boat ("coners"). These pieces only ever interview and report on coners (not in small part due to the intense security concerns surrounding nuclear propulsion technology). The lives of the submariners on either side of the watertight door are different in many significant respects, there's no nuke in the fleet that appreciates being represented in the public eye by sonar techs and torpedomen, but nukes only get talked about when they're killing themselves [1].

This is the nature of the secrecy surrounding US subs of course, and I'm not complaining, but it's weird. These articles show the best possible life aboard a US submarine, likely the best possible life aboard any submarine. It's the US Navy putting its best foot forward for the benefit of reporters. Note they talk about the integration of US boomers, but don't mention that US fast attacks remain male-only with no plans to change in the near future. It is, without attaching any sentiment to the word positive or negative, propaganda.

[1]: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/nuclear-trained-sailors...

Re: Life Aboard a Nuclear Submarine

#43
post #4

> The military’s rationale for offering us access seemed clear. The brass, apparently, wanted to help get Americans accustomed to the increasingly real prospect of conflict with a genuinely powerful opponent. They wanted to humanize the otherwise inhuman—some would say inhumane—reality of nuclear deterrence. And, finally, they wanted to convey a message to China and Russia about US forces and their strategic capabili…

Interesting that the military would willingly present themselves as the single greatest threat to american security.

.. and not America's utter failure to produce any diplomacy worth its salt in the world today.

Re: Life Aboard a Nuclear Submarine

#44
post #6
post #4

> The military’s rationale for offering us access seemed clear. The brass, apparently, wanted to help get Americans accustomed to the increasingly real prospect of conflict with a genuinely powerful opponent. They wanted to humanize the otherwise inhuman—some would say inhumane—reality of nuclear deterrence. And, finally, they wanted to convey a message to China and Russia about US forces and their strategic capabili…

Doesn't this project weakness? Is there any reason to believe China or Russia have had doubts about US capabilities that this would now... resolve?

This is sabre-rattling belligerence, plain and simple. There is no threat from Russia or China that can't be countered with a functioning diplomatic and ambassador corps ..

Alas, America doesn't have one of those any more - so it has to rattle sabres to get its way, instead.

The cost of half a submarine such as this would go a long way to restoring peace in the world, were it spent on diplomacy and good will instead of jobs programs for domestic war profiteers...

Re: Life Aboard a Nuclear Submarine

#45
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’d rather they be a transparent conduit for state propaganda? Better to remind readers that the military sees value in this article existing.

No I'd rather just read about god damn life on the god damn submarine as the title suggests. A quick conversation with my brother about what it was like was more informative than this trash.

Can we talk to your brother about the operation details of live on-board, too?

Re: Life Aboard a Nuclear Submarine

#46
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't this project weakness? Is there any reason to believe China or Russia have had doubts about US capabilities that this would now... resolve?

This is sabre-rattling belligerence, plain and simple. There is no threat from Russia or China that can't be countered with a functioning diplomatic and ambassador corps .. Alas, America doesn't have one of those any more - so it has to rattle sabres to get its way, instead. The cost of half a submarine such as this would go a long way to restoring peace in the world, were it spent on diplomacy and good will instead…

> There is no threat from Russia or China that can't be countered with a functioning diplomatic and ambassador corps

I feel like Ukrainians would disagree with you.

And Taiwanese.

And people using chips made in Taiwan.

Re: Life Aboard a Nuclear Submarine

#47
post #22

There's a very old post which was on USENET and then on Reddit, which was a wry look at life on a sub, and an even funnier post of how to re-create the experience at home. Mostly it consisted of getting your SO to lock you in a cupboard under the stairs, run a vacuum cleaner outside the cupboard 24/7 and periodically throw a bucket of shit over you, while you were wrapped in a black plastic bag (CBW)

The one detail that comes up from people who’ve been on board but isn’t covered in the media is the smell. I’ve been told it’s like a locker room that hasn’t been aired for years.

Re: Life Aboard a Nuclear Submarine

#48
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is sabre-rattling belligerence, plain and simple. There is no threat from Russia or China that can't be countered with a functioning diplomatic and ambassador corps .. Alas, America doesn't have one of those any more - so it has to rattle sabres to get its way, instead. The cost of half a submarine such as this would go a long way to restoring peace in the world, were it spent on diplomacy and good will instead…

> There is no threat from Russia or China that can't be countered with a functioning diplomatic and ambassador corps I feel like Ukrainians would disagree with you. And Taiwanese. And people using chips made in Taiwan.

Such a fallacy. The Ukrainians don't have a functioning diplomatic or ambassador corps, either.

Much as Americans might fantasize about adding it as another star to their flag, Ukrainians aren't American citizens whose taxes get wasted on these ridiculous submarines, and the Ukrainian people don't pay for the US' military junta's favorite toys of the month. It buys the old ones for its war.

If America drops a bomb, it is only because it failed at diplomacy. That'll be as true of any war in Taiwan as it is in Ukraine.

Re: Life Aboard a Nuclear Submarine

#49
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No I'd rather just read about god damn life on the god damn submarine as the title suggests. A quick conversation with my brother about what it was like was more informative than this trash.

Can we talk to your brother about the operation details of live on-board, too?

Why, because the article didn't satisfy you right?

Totally agree.

Re: Life Aboard a Nuclear Submarine

#50
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no threat from Russia or China that can't be countered with a functioning diplomatic and ambassador corps I feel like Ukrainians would disagree with you. And Taiwanese. And people using chips made in Taiwan.

Such a fallacy. The Ukrainians don't have a functioning diplomatic or ambassador corps, either. Much as Americans might fantasize about adding it as another star to their flag, Ukrainians aren't American citizens whose taxes get wasted on these ridiculous submarines, and the Ukrainian people don't pay for the US' military junta's favorite toys of the month. It buys the old ones for its war. If America drops a bomb, i…

> Much as Americans might fantasize about adding it as another star to their flag

Bothsidism is a strong in this one. Why am I not surprised it comes from an Austrian?

> If America drops a bomb, it is only because it failed at diplomacy.

First, diplomacy must be backed by strength, leverage, without it there's nothing to negotiate, because the other side can simply take what it wants. As such, sabre rattling is part of diplomacy. Nuclear deterrence is part of diplomacy.

Second, diplomacy may fail. Western diplomacy failed in 1938 and 1939, and there was war. Sometimes such failures happen and you need to be prepared for that. Layered defense.

I'm quite curious what would be your diplomatic solution to the Taiwan problem, hopefully it would respect the wishes of the Taiwanese residents.

Post reply on HN