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After 14 years in the industry, I still find programming difficult

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Re: After 14 years in the industry, I still find programming difficult

#41

Been programming over 30 years, since I was 8 years old and my dad’s coworker gave me his old BASIC programming books and I was hooked. I have always found programming easy, and still do. It is just fun, and I still love learning new languages and tools and paradigms. It is still my favorite hobby. However, WORK is hard. Dealing with office politics and changing priorities and bad leadership and meetings and TPS repo…

Most of those processes, tps reports, jira and other annoyances is because in a programming environment you literally have too many cooks in the kitchen. Every programmer can create the system from scratch, so to prevent them from doing so, we have to make it super annoying. Basically it's a people problem. The most incredible work happens in the first 3 months by a lone developer green-fielding with no boundaries. T…

I agree with some of this, and that green field productivity can be impressive... but I work a lot on very large systems that would simply be impossible for a single person to create in a reasonable amount of time. Even though I am sure I could create every system I need to solve the problem, it would take decades. I like working on small subsets of the overall problem, that is not the issue. I even like working on teams!

The issue is the things outside of solving the actual problem.

Re: After 14 years in the industry, I still find programming difficult

#44
> Programming doesn't get much easier with experience, the idea that it's "as easy as eating cookies" only happens in dreams.

Doesn't match my experience. 20 years after starting my career, I can now write simpler code, build better abstractions, produce fewer bugs, and achieve higher performance in less time spent than when I started. The more time I spend programming, the more those statements are true. That's why it's so incredibly rewarding and frankly addictive. It's a positive feedback loop with seemingly no upper bound. More time invested yields more skills and better results.

Of course many parts of programming are still difficult. Concurrency and distributed systems take a ton of mental energy. But those parts were simply inaccessible to me when I first started my career. Now I can actually make progress.

Re: After 14 years in the industry, I still find programming difficult

#45
Yes, also still struggling, after some decades.

But I wonder what the metric is, when other people comment that 'it's a breeze'?

Sure it's too easy to lay down any old crap. But the trick is addressing all the aspects and concerns of the problem, in an elegant way, that is easy to understand and modify.

So for me it's more 'analysis paralysis', and perfectionism, if not simply 'pride in a job well done' than any difficulty in just slinging code.

Re: After 14 years in the industry, I still find programming difficult

#47
IMO it massively depends on what you're working on.

I work on some codebases that are primarily about moving data around in Go. There are patterns to follow, there are no tricky algorithms, concurrency is largely solved, etc. All the challenge is about the broader engineering task of developing requirements, communicating, managing risks of deployment, stuff like that.

Then, I work on kernel code where it takes me months to get a few hundred lines of C to a quality that is acceptable. It's mentally exhausting, I have to take breaks. I can randomly get stuck for hours at a time on stupid stuff like a linked list corruption. Deadlocks happen. It's just as hard as programming has ever been. I have very little energy left over to engage with stakeholders, do project planning, etc.

So there's one PoV.

Re: After 14 years in the industry, I still find programming difficult

#48
When I started running I kept expecting it to feel easier the more I trained, but it never did. The more in shape I got, the faster/further I would run. It turned out I had a threshold of perceived effort that I would run at no matter what my fitness was. I imagine this translates to other endeavors like math or art or programming–we find harder problems at our threshold for discomfort.

Re: After 14 years in the industry, I still find programming difficult

#49

Been programming over 30 years, since I was 8 years old and my dad’s coworker gave me his old BASIC programming books and I was hooked. I have always found programming easy, and still do. It is just fun, and I still love learning new languages and tools and paradigms. It is still my favorite hobby. However, WORK is hard. Dealing with office politics and changing priorities and bad leadership and meetings and TPS repo…

Yup. As a senior programmer who's been a professional for 10+ years and has been programming on and off since roughly 10 years old, I have found that the more time I spend in my field, the harder my work becomes in a way that is disproportionate to my experience. It's not the programming itself that has become more difficult, but all the process, tooling, and lack of organizational self-correction that makes aspects of my job hell.

Do I have the hardest job in the world? Not even close, by most measures. It can still be psychologically torturing at times and even cause a form of internal suffering that is distinct from the existential dread that comes from doing menial or repetitious work. Unlike the feeling of being a human robot, it's a feeling of the system attempting to slowly stretch my humanness to its limit.

Before I say anything else, there are still things I like about my profession and the company I work for. I don't think being a programmer is a complete waste of time.

However, in many ways, it indeed has become a waste of time.

I'd say easily one of the worst things about being an experienced programmer today is knowing that the task you are working on would have taken you 1/10 the amount of time to complete when you were a novice a long time ago. Even if your younger self wouldn't have gotten it totally right the first time, there was enough of a lack of friction there that a n00b could at least figure out how to integrate something workable.

At my current and few prior jobs before it, I have no clue how a junior programmer would survive. Maybe that's why all of my most recent employers only hire "seniors". Code bases are architected using approaches that everyone eventually agrees are bad, but the establishment inevitably uses the "that's just how we always do it" or "we'll make it better someday" excuses, and if you suggest a solution that goes against that attitude you'll likely get nowhere – that is, unless you have some clout, like if you're a prominent contributor to some framework, in which case you're given license to dictate the views of non-staff engineers and force new languages and tools down their throats without having to actually prove any of your assumptions. Because framework contributors are better than all of us?

If the software industry hits a greater downturn than the one it's experiencing right now, to the point where I'm laid off, I can't say I'll be terribly disappointed. It was a great ride and fun while it lasted. Today, programmers are merely seen as a necessary evil rather than an asset. Many companies still pay programmers handsomely, but those programmers are otherwise not treated that well because their real purpose is to duct tape the mess and allow middle management to collect their own paychecks. It will be rough not having that sweet programmer paycheck, but fortunately I have other ways to make income now.

Re: After 14 years in the industry, I still find programming difficult

#50
I also disagree. Sure, there are still hard problems, but for the most part, I think it's pretty easy. People from past jobs tell me my work is super straightforward so I don't think I'm tripping.

Even the other things like writing documentation or being in meetings is fun. I got into this field (well, I got an EE degree) because I like engineering and building things, not specifically programming, and meeting with people to figure out what the hell we want is at least half of engineering.

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