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Boeing ousts 737 MAX chief

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Re: Boeing ousts 737 MAX chief

#41

Post by SleepilyLimping »

legitster wrote: post #23
mikece wrote: post #3

A friend of mine who used to work for Boeing said the downward trend started when they acquired McDonnell Douglas and the MD bean counters took over a lot of top positions at Boeing, displacing engineers. After that cost-cutting became more of an obsession than building awesome aircraft. Makes me wonder how Boeing can avoid descending into bankruptcy at this point with multiple major projects having significant issue…

Well, the MD acquisition didn't happen in a vacuum. At the time Airbus was becoming a government-backed behemoth, and the US government was allocating all of their political capital and military procurement at MD. So the whole point of acquiring MD was to get more favorable government treatment. What followed was not necessarily even about cost-cutting - they wanted to spread out the production of their aircraft from…

Isn't it wondrous what lobbying can do?

Re: Boeing ousts 737 MAX chief

#42

Post by slt2021 »

sonicanatidae wrote: post #22
varjag wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are bad engineers too.

Absolutely, but systemically, that's not been their problem. Too many MBAs are making decisions without Engineering involvement. I know because my industry works the exact same way le rage

this is because shareholders (pension and investment fund managers) are all MBAs and they demand results a-la "quick wins" that forces management into short-term thinking, cutting corners and cutting costs

Re: Boeing ousts 737 MAX chief

#43

Post by pg_1234 »

ics wrote: post #34
tr_user wrote: post #6

Steps in the right direction, let's get rid of more engineers and replace them with more MBAs. > However, a person familiar with the decision and who asked not to be identified commenting on sensitive personnel decisions, confirmed that Clark’s leaving was not voluntary. > Clark is an engineer. His successor Ringgold has business degrees. However she began her aviation career performing avionics systems maintenance a…

While many here won't disagree in general, be wary of holding this sentiment as dogma. There can be bad apples in engineering, and MBAs who can see that whether or not they have the knowledge or experience to make it better themselves. Whether or not they can (or want to) make the next step of hiring better or more honest engineers is what matters then. (I'm not optimistic about Boeing here, but hey.)

> There can be bad apples in engineering,

So true ... Jack Welch was an engineer.

Re: Boeing ousts 737 MAX chief

#46

Post by seanmcdirmid »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #21
bobthepanda wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is really hard. China, Russia and Japan have tried state sponsored schemes without success. Bombardier of Canada had to throw in the towel, and Embraer of Brazil almost did. Part of the problem is also that airlines have been very good at squeezing the duopoly while demanding ever more. The competition, if it manages to get a plane in the air, usually isn’t as fuel efficient and so the airlines have mostly not bee…

Russia and Japan failed, but it's far too early to call COMAC from China a failure.

C919 isn't China's first attempt. But they have a long term view of the industry and should be able to make progress even if they only satisfy some of their own domestic demand.

Re: Boeing ousts 737 MAX chief

#47

Post by msie »

tr_user wrote: post #6

Steps in the right direction, let's get rid of more engineers and replace them with more MBAs. > However, a person familiar with the decision and who asked not to be identified commenting on sensitive personnel decisions, confirmed that Clark’s leaving was not voluntary. > Clark is an engineer. His successor Ringgold has business degrees. However she began her aviation career performing avionics systems maintenance a…

Can't tell if you are sarcastic or not.

Re: Boeing ousts 737 MAX chief

#48

Post by legitster »

gumby wrote: post #32
legitster wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, the problem this time was with QC - not with engineering.

This was actually a QA problem — a set of design issues starting at the front of the process. All QC can do is identify problems after they have occurred. As the saying goes, “you can’t test quality into a product.”

I guess I am a bit confused. Someone was supposed to be checking the bolts before the plane left the facility and they didn't. That seems to be a QC process issue more than a QA issue.

But that also seems like splitting hairs. The problem is not one of engineering design, to OP's post.

Re: Boeing ousts 737 MAX chief

#50

Post by bobthepanda »

margalabargala wrote: post #19
bobthepanda wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is really hard. China, Russia and Japan have tried state sponsored schemes without success. Bombardier of Canada had to throw in the towel, and Embraer of Brazil almost did. Part of the problem is also that airlines have been very good at squeezing the duopoly while demanding ever more. The competition, if it manages to get a plane in the air, usually isn’t as fuel efficient and so the airlines have mostly not bee…

> Bombardier of Canada had to throw in the towel To be fair, that's because Boeing forced them to sell the rights to the A220 for $1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSeries_dumping_petition_by_Bo...

Bombardier had a lot of other problems going on as well. Generally, their entire transportation division (they also had railcar manufacturing) had manufacturing and timeline issues. The price cut that resulted in the dumping penalties was an attempt to shore up a program that was already flailing.
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