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ASML dethrones Applied Materials, becomes largest fab tool maker

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Re: ASML dethrones Applied Materials, becomes largest fab tool maker

#41

Post by konschubert »

lnxg33k1 wrote: post #39
nn3 wrote: post #3

Relevant HN comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18463181 Apparently their software development processes are terrible.

I've lived in NL for a while, few years, changed few companies, it's a place where processes are more important than actual code quality, where people stay in the same job for 10-15 years and everything below that is seen as a bad thing, people is hired for the culture primarily, having awareness of software principles is really worthless. I ran away as the last company I interviewed with, after solving a coding puzz…

I thought that the dutch would be more ... modern?

Re: ASML dethrones Applied Materials, becomes largest fab tool maker

#42

Post by lnxg33k1 »

konschubert wrote: post #41
lnxg33k1 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've lived in NL for a while, few years, changed few companies, it's a place where processes are more important than actual code quality, where people stay in the same job for 10-15 years and everything below that is seen as a bad thing, people is hired for the culture primarily, having awareness of software principles is really worthless. I ran away as the last company I interviewed with, after solving a coding puzz…

I thought that the dutch would be more ... modern?

I don't know, I've worked in Germany, but only for US companies, so I can't speak for proper German company software development culture :(

Re: ASML dethrones Applied Materials, becomes largest fab tool maker

#43

Post by konschubert »

1123581321 wrote: post #4
nn3 wrote: post #3

Relevant HN comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18463181 Apparently their software development processes are terrible.

From that comment I concluded that software patching speed isn’t a bottleneck there. It sounds frustrating but to be terrible it needs to significantly impede the product or business relationships, which isn’t at all happening.

I find it strange that they are making so few machines.

The price would probably drop slightly if they made 10x more machines, but they would still end up earning more. And the world would be a better place, too.

So I am left wondering ... what is capping their output? What is the bottleneck?

Re: ASML dethrones Applied Materials, becomes largest fab tool maker

#45

Post by roenxi »

httpz wrote: post #27

Zeiss -> ASML -> TSMC -> Nvidia Seems crazy that there are no alternatives for these four companies in the high end AI semiconductor supply chain.

That perspective is a little wrong; those are the 4 companies on the edge of a wave of technological improvement. It isn't unusual for there to be unique companies in those circumstances. For example when Apple hit the market with the iPhone back in '07 there were similar things going on. One of the things that hamstrung Apple's competitors was that nobody in the supply could manufacture equivalent parts.

Those 4 companies aren't without competitors. But if you pick the best in each category there is (funnily enough) only one option and right now chaining them together gets a noticeably better product than anyone else can build. That isn't normal but it also isn't that weird for new products.

If you want what Nvidia was building a few years ago there are several of options.

Re: ASML dethrones Applied Materials, becomes largest fab tool maker

#46

Post by YorickPeterse »

lnxg33k1 wrote: post #39
nn3 wrote: post #3

Relevant HN comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18463181 Apparently their software development processes are terrible.

I've lived in NL for a while, few years, changed few companies, it's a place where processes are more important than actual code quality, where people stay in the same job for 10-15 years and everything below that is seen as a bad thing, people is hired for the culture primarily, having awareness of software principles is really worthless. I ran away as the last company I interviewed with, after solving a coding puzz…

This seems like a very one-sided opinion/experience. While I've certainly had my own share of odd experiences and heard similarly odd stories, this doesn't really strike me as specific to The Netherlands as a whole.

Re: ASML dethrones Applied Materials, becomes largest fab tool maker

#47

Post by micwag »

tester756 wrote: post #28
httpz wrote: post #27

Zeiss -> ASML -> TSMC -> Nvidia Seems crazy that there are no alternatives for these four companies in the high end AI semiconductor supply chain.

Wasnt it recently announced that Nvidia will use Intel's foundry? At least for Advanced Packaging

That would only replace TMSC. Zeiss and ASML would be still in the supply chain.

Re: ASML dethrones Applied Materials, becomes largest fab tool maker

#48

Post by lnxg33k1 »

YorickPeterse wrote: post #46
lnxg33k1 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've lived in NL for a while, few years, changed few companies, it's a place where processes are more important than actual code quality, where people stay in the same job for 10-15 years and everything below that is seen as a bad thing, people is hired for the culture primarily, having awareness of software principles is really worthless. I ran away as the last company I interviewed with, after solving a coding puzz…

This seems like a very one-sided opinion/experience. While I've certainly had my own share of odd experiences and heard similarly odd stories, this doesn't really strike me as specific to The Netherlands as a whole.

Of course I can only express one sided experiences, did you think you were reading a post from Him? :D

To me is specific to there because while I’ve had weird experiences somewhere else, it was not as consistent, so in my own experience (guess I need to specify the obvious) it's more likely to end up in weird codebases there than somewhere else, again, in my experience

Was always wondering why people say on their blog that opinions are their own

Re: ASML dethrones Applied Materials, becomes largest fab tool maker

#49

Post by mrtksn »

lnxg33k1 wrote: post #39
nn3 wrote: post #3

Relevant HN comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18463181 Apparently their software development processes are terrible.

I've lived in NL for a while, few years, changed few companies, it's a place where processes are more important than actual code quality, where people stay in the same job for 10-15 years and everything below that is seen as a bad thing, people is hired for the culture primarily, having awareness of software principles is really worthless. I ran away as the last company I interviewed with, after solving a coding puzz…

Good thing that soon all the software would be written by AI then.

Slightly kidding, but only slightly because I kind of agree with the idea that people shouldn't be writing software but designing systems. All this big talks about unit testing, management styles etc. and at the end we have this software all around with huge security holes and terrible bugs. Maybe the people partying on Fridays right after pushing untested code to production are having it right. Their machines work.

Re: ASML dethrones Applied Materials, becomes largest fab tool maker

#50

Post by micwag »

roenxi wrote: post #45
httpz wrote: post #27

Zeiss -> ASML -> TSMC -> Nvidia Seems crazy that there are no alternatives for these four companies in the high end AI semiconductor supply chain.

That perspective is a little wrong; those are the 4 companies on the edge of a wave of technological improvement. It isn't unusual for there to be unique companies in those circumstances. For example when Apple hit the market with the iPhone back in '07 there were similar things going on. One of the things that hamstrung Apple's competitors was that nobody in the supply could manufacture equivalent parts. Those 4 com…

Zeiss and ASML currently have no competitors in the EUV lithography space as everyone else dropped out. (There was a big switch from lenses to mirrors)

I won't rule out a direct competitor, but they have a substantial moat.

They face some pressure from indirect competition like Canon Nanoimprint though.

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