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What if public housing were for everyone?

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Re: What if public housing were for everyone?

#41

Post by seanmcdirmid »

harimau777 wrote: post #2

My understanding is that one of the feature's of Singapore's public housing is that there is a range of qualities from basic to luxury. It seems to me that could help make such a program more palatable.

Singapore public housing is for the middle class, so it’s really different from American kind. Singapore also has subsidized/free housing for those that can’t even afford public housing, which isn’t exactly cheap, even if affordable to the middle class. Many Americans would think $500k for a flat was actually not reasonably priced at all, but locations is key.

Re: What if public housing were for everyone?

#42

Post by seanmcdirmid »

purpleflame1257 wrote: post #3
harimau777 wrote: post #2

My understanding is that one of the feature's of Singapore's public housing is that there is a range of qualities from basic to luxury. It seems to me that could help make such a program more palatable.

One of the other things about Singapore is that they will bring the hammer down on you for abusing the public housing. If you pee in an elevator, the doors will shut and the police will come. Compare that to public housing in America...

Public housing is for the middle class. This isn’t low barrier or even housing for the poor like in the USA.

Re: What if public housing were for everyone?

#43

Post by Wytwwww »

wolfram74 wrote: post #11
Aurornis wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In order to win elections, you almost need those investors on your side more than the actual public …because those few elite investors outnumber the voting public at the voting booth? This claim doesn’t make any sense. It’s weird conspiratorial thinking. EDIT: Yes, people. I’m familiar with Fox News and the concept of campaign donations. However, Fox News’ prime time viewership is around 0.5% of the US population a…

One way the super wealthy can over whelm the intent of voters is through emphasis of information. It doesn't matter if candidate A supports 2 or 3 things most people like, if they also support or symbolize something they hate. By emphasizing a less important true thing through disproportionate marketing budgets, you can decrease the chances of people voting in favor of their own interests.

I'm sure most homeowners (especially those owning multiple properties but not even remotely close to being "super wealthy") would gladly vote against their interest as long as lobbyists stopped trying to influence public opinion...

Re: What if public housing were for everyone?

#44

Post by sumNall »

jonfw wrote: post #24
brtkdotse wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's two primary reasons- zoning, and speculative investment that keeps good land off of the market. While I agree with the second point, I’m having a hard time understanding how zoning can affect pricing. Isn’t it just “you can’t build industry next to residential”?

Zoning limits the density of housing. I live near an area that used to be rural, now is suburban, and zoning around here often requires more than 1 acre per house. The major developers are able to figure out how to rezone and build houses on less than a quarter acre, but if you wanted to do it on a small scale (i.e. buy an old house on 4 acres, tear it down, and build a small subdivision instead) it's just not practi…

Past methodology applied to public housing has resulted in problems. Historically the method was “how cheaply can it be made so the local building cartel can make the most profit.”

America really needs to deal with the mid-1900s mafia family like mentality still running US politics; electoral turnover flushes rent seeker politicians and their financier’s political support: https://www.nber.org/papers/w29766

The US was trending progressive before it opened it arms to post World War racists and migrants fleeing Europe. Oh what an ironic narrative their progeny babble today

Re: What if public housing were for everyone?

#46

Post by bluGill »

malermeister wrote: post #7
Aurornis wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In order to win elections, you almost need those investors on your side more than the actual public …because those few elite investors outnumber the voting public at the voting booth? This claim doesn’t make any sense. It’s weird conspiratorial thinking. EDIT: Yes, people. I’m familiar with Fox News and the concept of campaign donations. However, Fox News’ prime time viewership is around 0.5% of the US population a…

You need immense financial resources to win elections in the US. To get those, you need the support of elite investors. This is why other countries legally cap election campaign spending.

This is why iowa has the first caucus. As a small state you need much less money to reach everyone and a win will get you attention and money to target other states.

as an Iowan I hate it as so many caucus only for the strawpoll.

Re: What if public housing were for everyone?

#47

Post by ghaff »

jonfw wrote: post #14

public housing doesn't address the root of the problem. Housing prices are insane because it's expensive and difficult to acquire and develop land. There's two primary reasons- zoning, and speculative investment that keeps good land off of the market. This make land very expensive to developers and limits competition. Developing, rezoning, acquiring land can take expertise and political capital. Small developers have…

Housing prices are mostly insane in some places because a lot of people have decided they want to live in the same places because of jobs/culture/etc. There's at least some evidence that areas where a fair bit of development has happened over the past couple of decades because of demand still can have very expensive housing.

Re: What if public housing were for everyone?

#48

Post by occz »

jonfw wrote: post #14

public housing doesn't address the root of the problem. Housing prices are insane because it's expensive and difficult to acquire and develop land. There's two primary reasons- zoning, and speculative investment that keeps good land off of the market. This make land very expensive to developers and limits competition. Developing, rezoning, acquiring land can take expertise and political capital. Small developers have…

Public housing does help address one of the roots of the problem - this is a problem with multiple roots. Public housing does not need to factor in rent seeking in their pricing, as housing is end itself, not the means to another end. It also helps address the other factor of financing housing construction at scale - build standardized and in bulk, and you bring down the price of construction, which is not insignificant.

The government is also in charge of setting zoning policy, meaning that they are better positioned to change said policy.

Re: What if public housing were for everyone?

#49

Post by seanmcdirmid »

thworp wrote: post #39

I appreciate every single new housing unit being built and think public housing is generally a good idea. But recently there seems to be a trend of people wanting to fast-track zoning and permitting for public housing only, while keeping private builders stuck in the quicksand of permitting. This is not the way mainly because the state does not have the resources to satisfy all housing demand (but also because two-ti…

> If North American cities zoned a quarter of their area as 5-story midrises with large parks and mixed use and made permitting quick and easy we could really bankrupt the rent-seekers.

I don’t believe that because it doesn’t happen in other countries that allow for 5 story midrises with large parks and mixed use and … the housing prices are often even more than North America in places that allow that in Europe and Asia. The only place with reasonable housing prices by our standards would be Japan, but housing is still expensive compared to what locals earn.

Re: What if public housing were for everyone?

#50

Post by kiba »

ghaff wrote: post #47
jonfw wrote: post #14

public housing doesn't address the root of the problem. Housing prices are insane because it's expensive and difficult to acquire and develop land. There's two primary reasons- zoning, and speculative investment that keeps good land off of the market. This make land very expensive to developers and limits competition. Developing, rezoning, acquiring land can take expertise and political capital. Small developers have…

Housing prices are mostly insane in some places because a lot of people have decided they want to live in the same places because of jobs/culture/etc. There's at least some evidence that areas where a fair bit of development has happened over the past couple of decades because of demand still can have very expensive housing.

Cities are economically advantageous for a reason.

I don't think people are suggesting we make cities less appealing. Rather, people are advocating for measures that make cities more livable, such as investing in mass transit and reducing the amount of space inefficient car infrastructure and usage.

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