When has UBI actually every been tried? I don't think any trials really qualify as "Universal". IMO the universal part is the hard part and changes it drastically. Compared to a small limited trial of giving people money, where does it all come from when it's actually universal? And what are the effects on the overall economy when it's universal?
Universal Basic Income Has Been Tried over and over Again. It Works Every Time
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Re: Universal Basic Income Has Been Tried over and over Again. It Works Every Time
#42I don't think anyone is doubting that giving people money improves their lives. That seems to be the conclusion of these studies. However what is seemingly _never_ studied is how to finance such an operation. The money has to come out of the system somewhere. Is it with new taxation on XYZ, or slashing services somewhere else etc.
Re: Universal Basic Income Has Been Tried over and over Again. It Works Every Time
#43[flagged]
Re: Universal Basic Income Has Been Tried over and over Again. It Works Every Time
#44In the US, we gave money to people during the pandemic. Worker shortages in low-skill labor resulted and inflation hit 10%. I think that's the major flaw - young, childless people without responsibility see no reason to work, when they can watch Netflix all day, either paying their mom some token rent or sharing a flop house with a bunch of friends.
Re: Universal Basic Income Has Been Tried over and over Again. It Works Every Time
#45The issue with UBI is that enacting it at scale has two huge problems:
1. Financing it. These programs are monumentally expensive. You need to get the money from somewhere. The easiest place to take it is via the money printer and the second is from the rich.
If you do it via the money printer, it's a self-own in terms of inflationary impact.
If you do it by taxing the rich, you wind up hobbling and punishing your most productive citizens. Look at China's economic situation right now to see how ultimately unproductive that can be.
2. Diminishing effects. A bit more money is great when everybody else in your local economy didn't get it. But when everybody gets it, things just become more expensive.
The USA did this during the COVID era. We basically implemented UBI. We expanded the M1 money supply from $4T to $18T and largely handed it out in a diffuse way. For the first 6 months it was awesome. And then shortages started spiking and inflation started creeping in. We ultimately had to roll it back.
I don't think these problems are fundamentally solvable.
Instead, we should foster competition, incentivize innovation, and let markets do their thing. This will create lower prices for basic goods and create employment opportunities so people can have what they need for cheap, under the financing of their own effort.
Re: Universal Basic Income Has Been Tried over and over Again. It Works Every Time
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
> or slashing services somewhere else Military budget?
Military is actually a big jobs program itself, both for people directly employed by the military as well as for industrial contractors.
Re: Universal Basic Income Has Been Tried over and over Again. It Works Every Time
#47I don't think anyone is doubting that giving people money improves their lives. That seems to be the conclusion of these studies. However what is seemingly _never_ studied is how to finance such an operation. The money has to come out of the system somewhere. Is it with new taxation on XYZ, or slashing services somewhere else etc.
> The money has to come out of the system somewhere. Governments have the ability to print money out of thin air. What I'd like to see is how UBI impacts inflation and economic growth.
Re: Universal Basic Income Has Been Tried over and over Again. It Works Every Time
#48In the US, we gave money to people during the pandemic. Worker shortages in low-skill labor resulted and inflation hit 10%. I think that's the major flaw - young, childless people without responsibility see no reason to work, when they can watch Netflix all day, either paying their mom some token rent or sharing a flop house with a bunch of friends.
> Fears that the experiment would engender laziness in participants were not borne out in the project’s findings: “The ‘laziness’ contention is just not supported by our findings,” the chief data analyst of one of the experiments said. “There is not anywhere near the mass defection the prophets of doom predicted.”
Re: Universal Basic Income Has Been Tried over and over Again. It Works Every Time
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
Money isn't zero sum. We've never let such concerns interfere with funding wars.
This isn’t an argument. What do you say to someone who doesn’t think ubi will scale and who is also anti war?
Re: Universal Basic Income Has Been Tried over and over Again. It Works Every Time
#50I don't think anyone is doubting that giving people money improves their lives. That seems to be the conclusion of these studies. However what is seemingly _never_ studied is how to finance such an operation. The money has to come out of the system somewhere. Is it with new taxation on XYZ, or slashing services somewhere else etc.
Or how increasing the money supply affects the price of eggs...