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The Netflix Logo with Yarn was a lie

kevinparry.tv

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Re: The Netflix Logo with Yarn was a lie

#41

Post by serial_dev »

I didn't see the original, so I'm not really emotionally invested in the thing, but it's a good learning opportunity.

IMO it's deceiving and dishonest to fake an elaborative creative process and tell the viewers it's something that it isn't.

On the other hand it's also a good reminder that only because a puppy eyed artsie guy makes a 7 minute documentary-style video that looks completely honest and believable, it doesn't automatically make it honest and true.

It was time I learned that, I added the "arts behind the scenes" category videos to the fake prank videos, pickup videos, political commentary, and product reviews. Everyone lies.

Re: The Netflix Logo with Yarn was a lie

#42

Post by tempay »

dcow wrote: post #19
spencerflem wrote: post #4

End result looked good, but lying for clickbait isn't cool even if you admit it in a blog post way after the fact.

My gut tells me lying for clicks “isn’t cool” because I might feel bad if I was one of the clickers. But is it formally unethical? Lying for profit seems obviously unethical because there’s an exchange of currency for a service. So if I contracted you to make a stop motion thing and you faked it with animation I’d be rightfully pissed. But lying for entertainment? Haven’t we been doing that for millennia? Pro Wrestli…

It’s harmful as it sets up the audience to end up either disbelieving everything they see or to think that their own abilities/failures aren’t normal. Especially given the blatant lies, “it took three days and I’m really happy with the result, you can barely tell the difference”.

Narrative wise a compelling video could still have been made showing which parts are real and how CGI can have benefits, especially if the final result was a hybrid of stop motion and CGI. Go what this longer video to see the details.

Re: The Netflix Logo with Yarn was a lie

#43

Post by Timothee »

To me it’s like magic tricks/illusions.

As if David Copperfield had an idea to make the Statue of Liberty disappear. He has a plan he thinks will work, but it doesn’t. So instead, the audience is made entirely of stooges. And we’re made to believe that they’re all random people.

Or it works, and he can actually put random people for whom the illusion will work!

Either way it only really works on TV if you believe that the live audience is real. If it’s a fake audience, anyone can do it, and it’s not interesting. (there are many well known magicians who use stooges and/or camera tricks all the time)

I feel the same here. The very reason people liked the video was the process he presented, not just the result. So lying about it is lame.

And I think it's unfortunate because he could have posted almost the same video with just saying "and… it didn't quite work! So I edited my real yarn logos and threads to get the final clip" and it would still be a cool result.

Re: The Netflix Logo with Yarn was a lie

#44

Post by dcow »

spencerflem wrote: post #38
dcow wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the purposes of discussion: In my experience there’s a very real difference. In the first case I’m not getting what I purchased. In the 2nd case I was scrolling videos looking to be entertained. The video entertained me; therefore, I got what I came for. I am no less disillusioned in either case when learning the truth. But in one case I was cheated out of something of value while in the other I was no less enter…

OK, I see where you're coming from, you didn't personally lose money. I'll even concede that the first one is worse. I still think both are wrong - the second one steals from the public's ability to trust things, and is unfair to creators who don't lie. Same with how cheating on school assignments is wrong, even if you can't point very directly at who was hurt. Its bad for society and almost all codes of ethics agree

I agree cheating is wrong. But it’s wrong because it’s fraud. You’ve falsified data and materially misrepresented yourself in a situation where there’s an expectation of honestly measuring your aptitude. Whoever relies on that truthful representation (such as a college offering you a scholarship) is being cheated out of something of value (a student with commendable aptitude that will one day give back generously to the endowment, cheek). We tend not to worry too much about cheating because usually it doesn't work out for the cheater in the end, but it’s clearly unethical.

“Stealing from the public’s ability to trust things.” Well… I tend to believe in people to an extent that would make Jonathan Kent proud, and even I don’t think entertainment that takes liberties is bad for society or erodes trust. If almost all codes of ethics agreed that entertainment had to be real, Hollywood and the internet wouldn’t exist.

I can see it being unfair to other content creators who believe that real content is one of the rules of the game. But since I’m not in the content creation industry I don’t know if that’s the expectation.

Re: The Netflix Logo with Yarn was a lie

#45

Post by curiousgeorgio »

po wrote: post #35
bnt wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was anyone hurt? Does anyone care? The original post was fun, and this is even funnier.

We teach kids that lying is wrong.. not because it hurts people (it does) or that people care (although they do) but because it tells you something about the morals of a person. You don't have to prove the individual social damage of each lie. We've accepted that lying has bad enough consequences often enough that "lying is bad." I get that we now live in an age of trolls, but this isn't a "whoo hoo, I trolled the wo…

Exactly. It's also pretty disrespectful to the honest people who spend years mastering a craft or skill that is appreciated for the process rather than just the end result.

It's an interesting topic in light of generative AI art. In many cases, the generated stuff can look nearly identical to some really talented artists' work. So are the artists themselves irrelevant? Is their work more or less valuable, given that it took much more time and effort for them to produce?

Why do people line up to see the real Mona Lisa when they can see essentially the same result on their smartphone or tablet?

Re: The Netflix Logo with Yarn was a lie

#46

Post by spencerflem »

dcow wrote: post #44
spencerflem wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, I see where you're coming from, you didn't personally lose money. I'll even concede that the first one is worse. I still think both are wrong - the second one steals from the public's ability to trust things, and is unfair to creators who don't lie. Same with how cheating on school assignments is wrong, even if you can't point very directly at who was hurt. Its bad for society and almost all codes of ethics agree

I agree cheating is wrong. But it’s wrong because it’s fraud. You’ve falsified data and materially misrepresented yourself in a situation where there’s an expectation of honestly measuring your aptitude. Whoever relies on that truthful representation (such as a college offering you a scholarship) is being cheated out of something of value (a student with commendable aptitude that will one day give back generously to…

I guess the question is: is this entertainment (like hollywood) or journalism. I read the news not because it really materially affects my life but just because its cool to know things that are true.

Fake news in an article about some cool thing someone did would still be sad to me, even if it doesn't really change anything

If what you hoped to get from the video was an entertaining few minutes I guess you're right to feel fine

But i hoped for an interesting look into the creative process and inspiration that fun things are possible, and I feel cheated

Re: The Netflix Logo with Yarn was a lie

#47

Post by pcthrowaway »

dcow wrote: post #19
spencerflem wrote: post #4

End result looked good, but lying for clickbait isn't cool even if you admit it in a blog post way after the fact.

My gut tells me lying for clicks “isn’t cool” because I might feel bad if I was one of the clickers. But is it formally unethical? Lying for profit seems obviously unethical because there’s an exchange of currency for a service. So if I contracted you to make a stop motion thing and you faked it with animation I’d be rightfully pissed. But lying for entertainment? Haven’t we been doing that for millennia? Pro Wrestli…

I must be jaded to assume everyone posting videos on youtube is doing so for profit, but... judging by the amount of expensive professional equipment he has, I suspect he is doing this for profit, and not just "entertainment"

Re: The Netflix Logo with Yarn was a lie

#48

Post by pcthrowaway »

neom wrote: post #9

As the mantra went in film school, a zillion years ago, before we had clicks to fake things for: The most creative people do the best job of hiding the source of their creativity. Like it or not, stuff like this has been the norm in the art world since forever.

Picasso is known for having said "Good artists copy, great artists steal"

It sounds like your film school mantra is just a less punchy version of this

Re: The Netflix Logo with Yarn was a lie

#49

Post by sshine »

Timothee wrote: post #43

To me it’s like magic tricks/illusions. As if David Copperfield had an idea to make the Statue of Liberty disappear. He has a plan he thinks will work, but it doesn’t. So instead, the audience is made entirely of stooges. And we’re made to believe that they’re all random people. Or it works, and he can actually put random people for whom the illusion will work! Either way it only really works on TV if you believe tha…

Comparing it to a magic trick is nice.

I'm happy he lied, because I enjoyed the illusion.

What matters is the amazement when the first person pulls it off.

It seems that lying about it was sort of okay, but admitting it gives the backlash.

I disagree that it would have been just as cool if he admitted at the end that it was digitally animated.

Re: The Netflix Logo with Yarn was a lie

#50

Post by neom »

pcthrowaway wrote: post #48
neom wrote: post #9

As the mantra went in film school, a zillion years ago, before we had clicks to fake things for: The most creative people do the best job of hiding the source of their creativity. Like it or not, stuff like this has been the norm in the art world since forever.

Picasso is known for having said "Good artists copy, great artists steal" It sounds like your film school mantra is just a less punchy version of this

I think that the joke of the mantra, it's stolen from that phrase.
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