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Why Americans Suddenly Stopped Hanging Out

theatlantic.com

41–50 of 149 posts

Re: Why Americans Suddenly Stopped Hanging Out

#41
post #29

As far as I am concerned, I have not observed this. I see plenty of people hanging out at restaurants and elsewhere. Many places are packed. It seems like there has been this trend of journalists writing these finger in the wind op-eds opining about a society that never existed or about something which is not a problem for most people but is turned into 'a thing' for the sake of pageviews and virality.

"Journalists" aren't journaling what is going on anymore, instead writing opinion hit pieces masquerading as journals to drive forth narratives and agendas. I despise "journalism" now, a cancer to society. Imagine if NTFS or ext4 made "journals" because it thought these bits were uglier than those other bits. Also, before someone quips "But mah statisticz!" : The interesting thing about statistics is you can twist th…

You wrote this:

For example, "reduced weekly social hangouts by more than three hours a week" sounds impressive until you remember a week is composed of 7 days, and 3 hours / 7 days = ~0.43 hours a day, or approximately 26 minutes less hanging out per day on average. That's a rounding error.

after writing this:

The interesting thing about statistics is you can twist them to mean anything you want.

That’s ironic given how bad your analysis was. It is not relevant the percent of 24 hours that 26 minutes represents. What is relevant is the percent decline in social activity that 26 minutes per day represents. For instance, if people engaged on average in 6 hours of social activity per week and then that dropped by 3 hours that would constitute a significant drop.

Re: Why Americans Suddenly Stopped Hanging Out

#42
post #37
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Journalists" aren't journaling what is going on anymore, instead writing opinion hit pieces masquerading as journals to drive forth narratives and agendas. I despise "journalism" now, a cancer to society. Imagine if NTFS or ext4 made "journals" because it thought these bits were uglier than those other bits. Also, before someone quips "But mah statisticz!" : The interesting thing about statistics is you can twist th…

26 minutes a day is not by any means a rounding error.

There are 1,440 minutes or 24 hours in a day. Let's be realistic and generous and consider 16 "useful" hours by assuming 8 hours of sleep, that's 960 minutes.

26 / 960 = 0.027, or approximately 3%; 26 minutes is 3% of one's "useful" day. There is also no standard duration defined for "hanging out", it could be just a few minutes at the water cooler, hours at a restaurant, or days or even weeks on a vacation trip.

3% is a rounding error.

Re: Why Americans Suddenly Stopped Hanging Out

#43
One aspect of this might be economic. I know I had a little more money leeway if you go back a few years.

Another thing not mentioned is hanging out online. There are a lot of different ways to do that, and although none of them are the same as hanging out in person, they can be similar to one degree or another.

Especially over the next few years as VR and AR devices become more capable and comfortable, I think the idea of hanging out will start to include virtual options.

Also looking further out, imagine cities that are designed with good density and also integrate efficient and inexpensive public transportation using small private autonomous vehicles. You could take the hassle and most of the cost of driving out of meet ups.

Re: Why Americans Suddenly Stopped Hanging Out

#44
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You nailed it. I've kind of stopped having get-togethers at my house (either for friends or family) because people show up, do a brief normal-human greeting interaction, and inevitably eventually sit down and just kind of zombie out scrolling their phones. Despite efforts to strike up conversation, play a board game or whatever, people just can't put the fucking things down for even 5 minutes, let alone enough time t…

If you're Orthodox, keeping Shabbat (no phones for 24 hours) solves this - at least for one day a week.

According to Google, Quora, and r/Judaism you can search for "is it okay to read Parsha or Tanach on phone on Shabat" on Shabbat.

Typed on my iDevice with thick slatherings of /s

Re: Why Americans Suddenly Stopped Hanging Out

#45

As far as I am concerned, I have not observed this. I see plenty of people hanging out at restaurants and elsewhere. Many places are packed. It seems like there has been this trend of journalists writing these finger in the wind op-eds opining about a society that never existed or about something which is not a problem for most people but is turned into 'a thing' for the sake of pageviews and virality.

Trends like this don't cause all the popular places to have half as many customers. Trends like this cause the number of popular places to go down, over years and years, leaving the existing ones as full as ever, because the customers are there for the crowd, not for the virtues of that specific place.

Re: Why Americans Suddenly Stopped Hanging Out

#47
It's not just phones because the trends observed by Putnam preceded all of that.

The changes that occured between the 1970s and before and the 1980s and after add up to be major watershed in American and more broadly western culture. You can blame neoliberalism but I think the real change is deeper than that. It's the shift from modernity to post-modernity. And post-modernity is an apt term because the name itself is backward looking and doesn't stand *for* anything, only *against* something.

The optimism of modernity, the belief in the perfectability of society, the abolition of want, of unlimited horizons - all these whiggish things - butt up against some very hard limits. These limits had been in the zeitgeist since the second world war, but reached the mass market in the 1980s.

The US is the quintessential modern country, in the sense of the word I am describing, a child of the Enlightenment. It only follows that the end of modernity would be hard on the American psyche, harder than in older countries with pre-modern cultural DNA.

Re: Why Americans Suddenly Stopped Hanging Out

#48
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Journalists" aren't journaling what is going on anymore, instead writing opinion hit pieces masquerading as journals to drive forth narratives and agendas. I despise "journalism" now, a cancer to society. Imagine if NTFS or ext4 made "journals" because it thought these bits were uglier than those other bits. Also, before someone quips "But mah statisticz!" : The interesting thing about statistics is you can twist th…

You wrote this: For example, "reduced weekly social hangouts by more than three hours a week" sounds impressive until you remember a week is composed of 7 days, and 3 hours / 7 days = ~0.43 hours a day, or approximately 26 minutes less hanging out per day on average. That's a rounding error. after writing this: The interesting thing about statistics is you can twist them to mean anything you want. That’s ironic given…

If anything, I demonstrated my point quite clearly: The narrative peddlers say the number is significant, I say the number is practically meaningless. If you are interested in getting an educated answer, crunch the numbers yourself along with your own life experiences and come to your own conclusions.

My own conclusion is that, no, 3 hours a week or 26 minutes a day is not significant. It's a rounding error.

>What is relevant is the percent decline in social activity that 26 minutes per day represents.

What do we define as "social activity"? Just physical interactions? No phone calls? Voice calls/chats? Video calls? Texting? Email? Instant messaging? Hell, Mysterious Twitter X or Hacker News?

My personal take, which you don't need to agree with, is that advances in communication technologies such as the internet have vastly increased my "social activity", because I understand "social activity" to mean any interactions with another human that aren't about business.

Re: Why Americans Suddenly Stopped Hanging Out

#49

No third space (and phones)

If you ask me, the lack of third space is a super underrated cause relative to phone usage.

When people talk about phone use as a cause of isolation, I think of Victorian descriptions of melancholic women and their obsession with novels that brought them to that state.

Re: Why Americans Suddenly Stopped Hanging Out

#50
Even though the direct effects of the pandemic have mostly disappeared, it still does not undo the years of staying at home that we have become accustomed and habituated to.

Rapid inflation didn’t help, either. For those lucky enough to survive layoffs, they doubled down on work either dedicating more of their time or attempted to insulate their risk by becoming overemployed. Those who have time for friend outings may not feel as if they can afford the cost and those who have money for friend outings may not feel as if they can afford the time.

The rapid rise and acceptance of a remote workforce has led to fewer face-to-face interactions among coworkers. Social circles, that would be expanded by crossing different groups of your friends and acquaintances together, are dwindling due to both natural attrition and because people just see each other less often, weakening social bonds over time.

Then when we all get together despite all odds of us actually meeting up, gatherings kind of just devolve to a bunch of loosely connected people looking at our phones. It’s tragically ironic that the device we use for instant communication ended up putting distance between all of us.

I think we need to make more of an effort to spend time that is of sufficient quality with other people, even if that means our social norms need to change, e.g. phone usage when with others, actively reaching out, etc.

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