Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

apnews.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 286 posts

Re: Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

#41

Post by explaininjs »

brandonagr2 wrote: post #31
dumbo-octopus wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toyota initiated the hybrid as a modern platform, and they continue make the best selling hybrid in the world (Prius). But since they don't want to be in the business of making undesirable vehicles with short lifespans that require expensive maintenance, they have stuck to hybrids rather than full electric and all the extremely costly low lifespan batteries that go into them. Speaking as a 2004 Prius daily driver, th…

You aren't more environmentally friendly, in less than 2 years an EV is net positive https://www.tesla.com/impact (see page 22) And that's not even mentioning that in 20 years we won't be mining materials out of the ground anymore, will just be recycling existing battery materials

Parent stated they drive a Prius, which is not the "standard EV" that article mentions. They slate 24mpg, which is laughable: that's around what my old gas guzzling V8 got, and they call it the norm? The Prius gets high 40's easily. But it's a EV fluff piece published by "the EV company", one can't expect scientific integrity.

In fact, reading through the lines of Tesla's own fluff piece, in places like China the Prius is net-environmentally positive even year by year as compared to the Model 3. China has the most emissions of any country, so that's a pretty big caveat to simply ignore. But again, fluff piece by the fluff company.

Re: Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

#42

Post by KptMarchewa »

brandonagr2 wrote: post #27
itsoktocry wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For context: Tesla is guiding for $10+B a year capex spending for the next 3 years. I know people around these parts think that Tesla has uncovered some magical factory building ability, but can you even consider the fact that maybe Toyota knows what they are doing? > Toyota is still under-investing in EV. $1.3B is nothing. This is one factory.

What about Toyota's plans makes you think they will ever catch up to everyone else with EVs?

I think Toyota feels comfortable being a follower in that case and eventually use a large number of suppliers for the basic things that Tesla as a first mover has or wants to develop themselves.

Re: Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

#43

Post by dmix »

jonnycomputer wrote: post #22

More Biden policy winning back investment in America, is my take. Update: People who may not have been following closely what Biden has accomplished during his Presidency might have questions. In this case, the Inflation Reduction Act specifically has credits to encourage battery manufacture in the US. https://www.orrick.com/en/Insights/2022/11/Section-45X-of-th ... More generally, the IRA and the Infrastructure Inve…

US domestic manufacturing became a major theme in the last two prior US elections.

If you look at growth charts in US factory capital it started spiking just before the signing of CHIPS act which was pitched to congress in 2019, which was a bipartisan effort seeded from the Trump admin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHIPS_and_Science_Act

And the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act which Biden admin pitched to congress, which also got pretty smooth bipartisan support:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrastructure_Investment_and_...

But it's success will be defined on how successful the factories are, not just how many billions/trillions of free $$ the US gov gives to megacorps to prop up these projects. We've seen many, many gov-incentivized factory announcements that went no where. Or worse wasted a ton of time & money of local govs + small town employees. The Obama admin had a few really bad examples of this.

Re: Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

#44

Post by explaininjs »

brandonagr2 wrote: post #27
itsoktocry wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For context: Tesla is guiding for $10+B a year capex spending for the next 3 years. I know people around these parts think that Tesla has uncovered some magical factory building ability, but can you even consider the fact that maybe Toyota knows what they are doing? > Toyota is still under-investing in EV. $1.3B is nothing. This is one factory.

What about Toyota's plans makes you think they will ever catch up to everyone else with EVs?

The fact that they already sell the most popular electric vehicle in the US and Japan, and have done so since they launched the very beginning of electric vehicles, over 25 years ago? (Pruis)

Re: Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

#45

Post by jonnycomputer »

dmix wrote: post #43
jonnycomputer wrote: post #22

More Biden policy winning back investment in America, is my take. Update: People who may not have been following closely what Biden has accomplished during his Presidency might have questions. In this case, the Inflation Reduction Act specifically has credits to encourage battery manufacture in the US. https://www.orrick.com/en/Insights/2022/11/Section-45X-of-th ... More generally, the IRA and the Infrastructure Inve…

US domestic manufacturing became a major theme in the last two prior US elections. If you look at growth charts in US factory capital it started spiking just before the signing of CHIPS act which was pitched to congress in 2019, which was a bipartisan effort seeded from the Trump admin. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHIPS_and_Science_Act And the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act which Biden admin pitched to cong…

Yes, but the CHIPS act was also signed by Biden. I think we can fairly credit him for seeing it through. Trump talked a lot about bringing manufacturing back, but he did not have the self-discipline to actually see any of it through; legislatively, Trump is a master of self-sabotage.

But it is true that the CHIP had bipartisan support, but the ones who supported it were not MAGA types, but people like McConnell.

Re: Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

#46

Post by belltaco »

Retric wrote: post #33
brandonagr2 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about Toyota's plans makes you think they will ever catch up to everyone else with EVs?

They don’t need to innovate just execute and Toyota is all about execution. Build a car people want and let sales drive future investments.

Execution like the wheels falling off their flagship all-ev car? After they've been making cars for 85+ years.

https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/wheels-falling...

https://www.motortrend.com/news/toyotas-fix-bz4x-disconnecti...

That doesn't get the headlines and attenion that a icon enlargement software update on Tesla does on HN.

Re: Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

#47

Post by mywittyname »

bhpm wrote: post #26

I am curious about what vehicles these will be for. When Toyota says “EVs” they often mean hybrids. The article makes this distinction, but Toyota didn’t in any statements.

The e-TNGA platform that underpins the BZ4x was supposed to have several more products built on it, including a larger SUV. This vehicle could be that SUV, or it could be one of the first products built on the platform that will replace the e-TNGA.

The Georgetown plant currently produces Camry and Rav4.

Re: Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

#48

Post by oldpersonintx »

jonnycomputer wrote: post #37
thinkingtoilet wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm left of Bernie and voted for Biden but I tend to not like takes like this. Is there a specific policy that he championed that is responsible for this? To me, it's like when people cheer a 'record stock market' as an example of a president's abilities, but fail to mention every single modern president has had a record stock market at some point in their term.

Yeah, the Inflation Reduction Act. https://www.orrick.com/en/Insights/2022/11/Section-45X-of-th... More generally, the IRA and the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrastructure_Investment_and_... https://www2.deloitte.com/us/en/insights/industry/manufactur... There's also the CHIPS act. By the way, anyone active in the green tech space knows that the IRA has been an absolute game…

[dead]

Re: Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

#49

Post by belltaco »

dumbo-octopus wrote: post #24
jgalt212 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feels "right-sized" given Toyota's approach towards EV's and the slowing adoption rate of EVs in the US.

Toyota initiated the hybrid as a modern platform, and they continue make the best selling hybrid in the world (Prius). But since they don't want to be in the business of making undesirable vehicles with short lifespans that require expensive maintenance, they have stuck to hybrids rather than full electric and all the extremely costly low lifespan batteries that go into them. Speaking as a 2004 Prius daily driver, th…

> But since they don't want to be in the business of making undesirable vehicles with short lifespans that require expensive maintenance

Then why did they go all in on hydrogen cars?

https://www.hydrogeninsight.com/transport/analysis-it-is-now...

Re: Toyota to invest $1.3B in Kentucky factory to build battery packs and new EV

#50

Post by lvturner »

anonylizard wrote: post #18
suoduandao3 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do believe that Tesla's success in the last decade was in large part due to the fact it was the only technology company that could use all the money people were throwing at technology companies.

Softbank's belief was that throwing capital would just make things work. But from wework to many other of their startups shows its not the case. Telsa had to deploy their capital very efficiently in a capital intensive industry. Say their bet on the Shanghai factory, despite obvious IP leak risks and spawning deadly competitors like BYD, was their only choice to reach scale at a low cost.

Spawning?

BYD was founded in 1995 and its automotive subsidiary 2003 (via aquisition)

Post reply on HN