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I also hacked my car

goncalomb.com

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Re: I also hacked my car

#41

Post by rickdeckard »

pvaldes wrote: post #24

And then you move the car to the maker for a simple maintenance task and, surprise bill.

Surprise bill for at best "the checksum didn't match so we gave ourselves another paid workorder to investigate the filesystem of your headunit"?

It's more likely that you get it back with a new software (and all your modifications wiped), because as part of the routine maintenance some blue-collar technician connects a USB-dongle and blindly upgrades the firmware.

Unless of course, the modification is so popular that searching for it becomes part of the vendors routine maintenance protocol...

Re: I also hacked my car

#42

Post by stavros »

pvaldes wrote: post #40
stavros wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would the bill be for? "Changing stuff you own"? When did we wholly give ourselves up to the idea that the manufacturer owns the stuff we bought, and they can penalize us for messing with their things?

They will see malware in the ECU. If a system is compromised by "obvious malware", other systems could be also. If there is a possible danger for your physical integrity any sensible worker will worry and take actions, specially before it evolves into a legal danger for them. They will not hesitate to change the Electronic Control module and maybe the BSI also, just to be sure that your car don't fails in the worse m…

> They will not hesitate to change the Electronic Control module and maybe the BSI also, just to be sure.

"I didn't authorize that, I'm not paying for it, please give me my car back the way it was."

Re: I also hacked my car

#43

Post by batch12 »

bloomingeek wrote: post #7

Awesome post! When will we be able to operate our car without it spying on us? Will we eventually be able to turn off the "phoning home" function/part?

Disconnecting the cellular antenna from behind my head unit is on my list of things to do.

Re: I also hacked my car

#44

Post by pvaldes »

stavros wrote: post #42
pvaldes wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They will see malware in the ECU. If a system is compromised by "obvious malware", other systems could be also. If there is a possible danger for your physical integrity any sensible worker will worry and take actions, specially before it evolves into a legal danger for them. They will not hesitate to change the Electronic Control module and maybe the BSI also, just to be sure that your car don't fails in the worse m…

> They will not hesitate to change the Electronic Control module and maybe the BSI also, just to be sure. "I didn't authorize that, I'm not paying for it, please give me my car back the way it was."

They will bill for the time lost chasing md5sums at least. You need to understand that cars are a bunch of computers now; but a laptop is not expected to kill you, and a car will. The risks associated with messing with the car are much higher.

And if you think that, lets say "BMW", will hesitate a second to block online your car heating in the middle of winter; think again. I had seen it before. Even if you could hack it, to reconfigure the system again is not always easy or obvious without some knowledge of what values you need to enter.

Re: I also hacked my car

#45

Post by stavros »

pvaldes wrote: post #44
stavros wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They will not hesitate to change the Electronic Control module and maybe the BSI also, just to be sure. "I didn't authorize that, I'm not paying for it, please give me my car back the way it was."

They will bill for the time lost chasing md5sums at least. You need to understand that cars are a bunch of computers now; but a laptop is not expected to kill you, and a car will. The risks associated with messing with the car are much higher. And if you think that, lets say "BMW", will hesitate a second to block online your car heating in the middle of winter; think again. I had seen it before. Even if you could hac…

You're confusing how things are with how they should be, though. I'm legally liable for any modifications I made to the car, so the manufacturer or repair garage should leave my property well alone.

It's not up to the car's maker to in any way interfere with or dictate the way I use my car.

Re: I also hacked my car

#46

Post by geerlingguy »

sircastor wrote: post #13

> The core OS appears to be from GENIVI/COVESA (GitHub: GENIVI/COVESA). I'm not familiar with these systems at all. They have a fair bit of open-source stuff that will probably explore in the future. In a prior role I got to engage on a number of GENIVI projects. GENIVI was/is a consortium of Auto makers and 1st-tier companies that determine standards for automotive IVI (In-Vehicle Infotainment). I got to work on som…

I found the Automotive Grade Linux booth at CES last month and indeed, they had a bunch of infotainment demos set up, along with at least four Raspberry Pis running demos or displays out in the open.

I also had a talk with a couple people at the booth, for example Igalia works upstream with Vulkan and Chromium a bunch. Would love to see more Linux on the dashboard in the future, some cars have pretty substantial chips powering their infotainment systems these days. Could be nice to add that as a node to a homelab Kubernetes cluster when it's parked idle in the garage :)

Re: I also hacked my car

#47

Post by mlrtime »

geerlingguy wrote: post #46
sircastor wrote: post #13

> The core OS appears to be from GENIVI/COVESA (GitHub: GENIVI/COVESA). I'm not familiar with these systems at all. They have a fair bit of open-source stuff that will probably explore in the future. In a prior role I got to engage on a number of GENIVI projects. GENIVI was/is a consortium of Auto makers and 1st-tier companies that determine standards for automotive IVI (In-Vehicle Infotainment). I got to work on som…

I found the Automotive Grade Linux booth at CES last month and indeed, they had a bunch of infotainment demos set up, along with at least four Raspberry Pis running demos or displays out in the open. I also had a talk with a couple people at the booth, for example Igalia works upstream with Vulkan and Chromium a bunch. Would love to see more Linux on the dashboard in the future, some cars have pretty substantial chip…

APITV makes infotainment systems for cars that run Linux.

https://www.aptiv.com/en

PCM6 for Porsche is a new Linux system from APITV.

Re: I also hacked my car

#48

Post by mlrtime »

goncalomb wrote: post #2

First time posting here on HN, I hope you find my latest hacking adventure interesting. Inspired by another post here on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32447650

If you are others are interested in more hacking there is a HUGE community for hacking many types of PCMs on the same OSs. Mostly VAG.

https://github.com/Mr-MIBonk/M.I.B._More-Incredible-Bash

Re: I also hacked my car

#50

Post by tyingq »

avar wrote: post #23
Slurpuff wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hard part about this nobody is willing to experiment with their $30k+ vehicle and risk bricking it. If you want a car that doesn’t spy on you you’re gonna have to look back a decade or so.

If you'd like to experiment with bricking the head unit on your new car you can shop around and find a totaled specimen. If all you need is a working head unit you should be able to get that for It's still an investment, but nowhere near $30k. The real reason nobody bothers with this is that it's just the infotainment, and if you really want a custom one you can just buy a new head unit, or glue a tablet where the ex…

Assuming the head unit isn't DRM locked to a specific VIN, etc. That's then extra cost to chase that rabbit trail.
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