Think of your home as (small) profitable power plant • Hacker News Board

Re: Think of your home as (small) profitable power plant

#41

Post by ljf » Thu, Feb 01, 2024, 2:33 PM UTC

blagie wrote: post #32

My problem is whenever I've seen these numbers, they were completely baked. "The total price tag for the entire home project was roughly $75,000, after rebates. But Tuttelman says it will pay for itself in about six years through energy cost savings." The costs seem right. I've priced this. The savings are nonsense. I don't spend $75k in utility bills in six years. "Other benefits include the stress savings of not ha…

Agree on some points here - in the UK I spend about £300 combined on gas and electricity.

But your boiler sounds interesting - if it is 40 years old it will be wildly inefficient compared to boilers from the last few years - on changing our 10yo boiler we saved about £100 a month across the year - But I only expect that boiler to last 10 to 15 years - but that is OK, by then I'm sure I'll be moving to electric heating and hot water, as I can only assume gas will be phased out.

Re: Think of your home as (small) profitable power plant

#42

Post by ProllyInfamous » Thu, Feb 01, 2024, 2:33 PM UTC

I recently replaced an electric instahot (on-demand) water heater with a tank hybrid heater. In addition to dehumidifying and cooling the basement, it uses about a quarter of the electricity (from 10%, monthly, to 3% kWH).

During the winter, I keep the tub water plugged up for the heat pump to re-absorb... REDUCE, re-use, recycle, generate.

Re: Think of your home as (small) profitable power plant

#43

Post by midasuni » Thu, Feb 01, 2024, 2:34 PM UTC

PaulKeeble wrote: post #18

Solar and batteries pays off pretty quickly and can bring you to a net zero position on electrical needs fairly easily (excess sold in summer, importing in the winter). On an annual basis I now power half of another home in addition to my own. If I take the total expected output over 25 years my electricity cost is 1/4 of what it would be from the grid per KW/h. I went 6 months last year importing almost nothing from…

I’ve been wondering about just battery and inverter and using an agile tariff. How large an inverter did you get and what happens at full load (oven, kettle, electric shower and hairdryer all on at same time) which is presumably combined higher than the inverter?

Re: Think of your home as (small) profitable power plant

#44

Post by jklinger410 » Thu, Feb 01, 2024, 2:37 PM UTC

some_random wrote: post #10

lucioperca wrote: post #6

These suburbia homes are still pretty bad deal for the public. Lots of infrastructure cost come with them like car infrastructure etc.

As a society, we've decided that we want lots of infrastructure including car infrastructure.

Did we decide that in a vacuum? Like by some kind of super informed vote? Or did a system designed to maximize profits hide the downside, promote the upsides, and convince us to do it, to their financial benefit?

And now that it is the norm, are people defending it because they actually agree, or are they just afraid of change and too weak to fight it now that it is normal?

I notice bad ideas usually die with a few defenders, whose arguments can be summed up with "it just works for me" in the face of all evidence. Suburbs seem to be one of those concepts.

Re: Think of your home as (small) profitable power plant

#45

Post by jklinger410 » Thu, Feb 01, 2024, 2:39 PM UTC

rickydroll wrote: post #34

dartos wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yknow, in the US, I think it was more auto industry lobbying in the 20th century that led us to the whole “stroads” situation we have. People didn’t like having 3 lane roads right in their path to walk to the grocery store. The municipal solution was to ensure everyone needed to drive everywhere.

I highly recommend everyone interested in local land use to attend planning board meetings regularly. Observe the work your planning board is doing, and if you don't like it, find some way to volunteer or actually be part of the planning board. This is the only way to make these changes at the local level.

This is why I'm convinced the biggest problem with the 40 hour work week and the capitalist perspective of the American system is actually the lack of time and added stress the system relies on to function.

People simply do not want to engage because they either literally don't have time, or are taking that time to prepare for their next shift.

An idle society, somewhat more like what the French have (as one example), can be seen as in constant cycles of rebellion. This is the way it should be done.

I won't make value judgement on human beings, I will just judge the systems that they must function inside of. And a system that deprives you of time and relaxation is a way to subvert democracy on a very basic level.

If we were to repair this issue in the US, it would likely take generations to accomplish.

Re: Think of your home as (small) profitable power plant

#46

Post by midasuni » Thu, Feb 01, 2024, 2:42 PM UTC

PaulKeeble wrote: post #26

djaychela wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

10MWh?

Could be an annual measure of expected output.

That’s the only thing which makes sense with the magnitude and unit used

Re: Think of your home as (small) profitable power plant

#47

Post by sumtechguy » Thu, Feb 01, 2024, 2:43 PM UTC

djaychela wrote: post #20

technotarek wrote: post #17

One man’s experience in DC (where the SRECs are crazy valuable): Installed 10Mwh system in 2021 for ~$40k. After federal tax credits, SREC earnings, reductions in electric bills, and payments from electric co for over production, we have $7k left to recoup in only 3 years. And that ignores savings from the gas we’re not spending on charging the PHEV. I know it’s a luxury to have, but there’s also some pride value (cl…

10MWh?

I have a 7k system. In 4 months since I have installed I have made about 3MW? Would have been more but ... winter. Maybe that is what they mean?

Re: Think of your home as (small) profitable power plant

#48

Post by midasuni » Thu, Feb 01, 2024, 2:44 PM UTC

the_gastropod wrote: post #38

bluescrn wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, if we all lived in city-centre 'WFH pods' eating bug paste we could get infrastructure costs and environmental impact way down! Then we could breed more humans, and 'growth' continues! (for some definitions of 'growth') But while some (young) people are fine with super-dense urban living, not needing a car, and rarely leaving their city, many people place a very high value on space, peace+quiet, and the increase…

Interestingly, I’m not particularly young (approaching 40), and can’t stand living in the suburbs (where I moved, from a city, last year). I feel so completely trapped, unfree, and dependent on my car, it’s ridiculous. I’ll be eating a $40k+ loss on this house purchase to move back asap, and it will be worth it. I find the ability to walk to my library or grocery store infinitely more freeing than having to buckle in…

So what you’re saying is you are against seatbelt laws…

Re: Think of your home as (small) profitable power plant

#49

Post by blagie » Thu, Feb 01, 2024, 2:49 PM UTC

ljf wrote: post #41

blagie wrote: post #32

My problem is whenever I've seen these numbers, they were completely baked. "The total price tag for the entire home project was roughly $75,000, after rebates. But Tuttelman says it will pay for itself in about six years through energy cost savings." The costs seem right. I've priced this. The savings are nonsense. I don't spend $75k in utility bills in six years. "Other benefits include the stress savings of not ha…

Agree on some points here - in the UK I spend about £300 combined on gas and electricity. But your boiler sounds interesting - if it is 40 years old it will be wildly inefficient compared to boilers from the last few years - on changing our 10yo boiler we saved about £100 a month across the year - But I only expect that boiler to last 10 to 15 years - but that is OK, by then I'm sure I'll be moving to electric heatin…

I'm not quite sure how a boiler can be efficient or inefficient. It seems like for every watt of power going in, I get one watt of heat out. That's basic thermodynamics. If heat doesn't make it into the water, it still ultimately heats my house.

Perhaps language issue?

My boiler heats the water for my radiators which heat my house. That's not the same as my hot water tank, which heats running hot water. Here, where modern ones do tend to leak less heat into the air, and these do have a limited lifespan as the tank corrodes.

Can you explain? I feel like the only way I could go up in efficiency is if I sucked in heat from the outdoors with a heat pump.

Re: Think of your home as (small) profitable power plant

#50

Post by midasuni » Thu, Feb 01, 2024, 2:49 PM UTC

jklinger410 wrote: post #44

some_random wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a society, we've decided that we want lots of infrastructure including car infrastructure.

Did we decide that in a vacuum? Like by some kind of super informed vote? Or did a system designed to maximize profits hide the downside, promote the upsides, and convince us to do it, to their financial benefit? And now that it is the norm, are people defending it because they actually agree, or are they just afraid of change and too weak to fight it now that it is normal? I notice bad ideas usually die with a few d…

Nobody in the suburbs seems to be trying to fight it, it’s people who like the high density living and want others to do so too.

People can choose now, some like suburban life, some like city life. Maybe this is influenced by media (not many shows with young 20 year olds in suburbia, or families in the city. It’s typically teens - suburbs, 20s singles city, parents suburbs, empty nesters skew more city again. But maybe that reflects what people like.