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How the FBI targeted Camus, and then Sartre after the JFK assassination (2013)

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Re: How the FBI targeted Camus, and then Sartre after the JFK assassination (2013)

#41

Post by toyg »

pessimizer wrote: post #13
thriftwy wrote: post #10

[flagged]

> I suspect You can just read. The most surprising thing about WWII, at least to many Nazis, is that the US and Britain didn't join the Axis. German theories about race were largely drawn from British and American sources. The US fought WWII with a racially segregated military.

That is more an indication of how fundamentally naive many Nazis were. British rulers always aimed to break up any significantly large European power, it's been their obvious geopolitical imperative from before Elizabethan times. That necessity trumps any vague sympathy or political affinity du jour. They would never have allowed Hitler to take over the whole continent.

Re: How the FBI targeted Camus, and then Sartre after the JFK assassination (2013)

#42

Post by [deleted] »

zozbot234 wrote: post #3
aebtebeten wrote: post #2

> ... there must be some kind of conspiracy between communists, blacks, poets and French philosophers. If you can connect these dots, then https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illuminati_(game) might be for you! (but see also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Jackson_Games,_Inc._v._U... )

I'm pretty sure that " ... there must be some kind of conspiracy " is the literal definition of a Conspiracy Theory. Nice to see that even the FBI is into that fun stuff.

[deleted]

Re: How the FBI targeted Camus, and then Sartre after the JFK assassination (2013)

#43

Post by mistrial9 »

throwaway8877 wrote: post #40
throwaway8877 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take the most favorable interpretation and I presume that the young age is in play in such large ignorance. Obviously the notion of poets doesn't contain all of them like the ones who write rhymes for children but poetry has since Age of Enlightenment been a tool of political critique if not earlier. The same applies to philosophy. I'm hope that you for sure have heard of Marx. I also hope that you have learned abo…

And what comes to McCarthy then he had every right to be extremely paranoid about the activities of Soviet Union in attempts to secretly influence American politics from the within. The work of American counter intelligence agencies is a clear proof of it. Recommended read https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1996/04/14/w...

no because a healthy politics does include alternative views. It is the unhealthy security mindset that becomes inflexible @! and does anyone now support the activity of Senator Joe McCarthy, honestly?

Re: How the FBI targeted Camus, and then Sartre after the JFK assassination (2013)

#44

Post by [deleted] »

throwaway8877 wrote: post #7
aebtebeten wrote: post #2

> ... there must be some kind of conspiracy between communists, blacks, poets and French philosophers. If you can connect these dots, then https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illuminati_(game) might be for you! (but see also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Jackson_Games,_Inc._v._U... )

There is necessarily no cross-links between all of them, but there is a link. If you can't imagine that a state that is obsessively dreaming about the world revolution and has a wide spy network and large group of naive sympathisers doesn't try to infiltrate all the possible influential counter cultures then you are a little too naive.

[deleted]

Re: How the FBI targeted Camus, and then Sartre after the JFK assassination (2013)

#45

Post by mistrial9 »

asveikau wrote: post #34
pessimizer wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I suspect You can just read. The most surprising thing about WWII, at least to many Nazis, is that the US and Britain didn't join the Axis. German theories about race were largely drawn from British and American sources. The US fought WWII with a racially segregated military.

White American culture is also kind of dominated by descendants of German immigrants. I recall seeing some historical racist media that was praising Anglo-German supremacy in contrast to Irish, southern and eastern Europeans etc. People forget this because the latter groups are all considered white now. I personally think this puts some weight into the "race is a social construct" theory. That and the existence of mi…

stop, stop right there. There was no single "White American culture" .. that is a misrepresentation with a purpose!

The original collection of States were formed exactly to let groups divide. There were vastly different cultures, both culturally bonded, and also diverse, that were included from the earliest days.

source: anti-war, anti-slavery "whites" from that time

Re: How the FBI targeted Camus, and then Sartre after the JFK assassination (2013)

#46

Post by pvg »

jjackson5324 wrote: post #25
rootusrootus wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nowadays This makes sense to me, because after all this time if we don't have anything which backs up the conspiracy theories it is sensible to believe that the results of the official investigation are largely accurate.

The House Select Committee on Assassinations was established to investigate the assassinations of JFK and MLK. After their investigation, they concluded that the official narrative was most likely wrong and they found a high probability that two gunmen fired at President John F. Kennedy. There were no investigations after that.. > Scientific acoustical evidence establishes a high probability that two gunmen fired at…

The House Select committee didn't do a very good job and did not have access to accurate information. There has been, of course, plenty of investigating done on the assassination since then. A well-known overview is Gerald Posner's Case Closed, it goes over the deficiencies of that and many other assassination theories with a fine-toothed comb.

Re: How the FBI targeted Camus, and then Sartre after the JFK assassination (2013)

#47

Post by saghm »

hackandthink wrote: post #39

"Despite gathering years of NSA-worthy surveillance on the philosophers, Hoover’s agents were never able to discern the ideological program of the French. “I can’t work out,” wrote one in a note in Sartre’s file, “if he’s pro-Communist or anti-Communist." I feel the same. Lévy often seems to be a manichean ideologue, but I found his Sartre book revealing: "Levy depicts Sartre as a man who could succumb to the twentie…

> "Despite gathering years of NSA-worthy surveillance on the philosophers, Hoover’s agents were never able to discern the ideological program of the French. “I can’t work out,” wrote one in a note in Sartre’s file, “if he’s pro-Communist or anti-Communist."

Honestly, what's crazy about that to me is the idea that he _must_ be one or the other. The idea that every writer is actively and wholeheartedly trying to advance exactly one side or the other of a geopolitical struggle is kind of silly. Maybe sometimes he thought about other stuff besides that?

Re: How the FBI targeted Camus, and then Sartre after the JFK assassination (2013)

#48

Post by saghm »

throwaway8877 wrote: post #7
aebtebeten wrote: post #2

> ... there must be some kind of conspiracy between communists, blacks, poets and French philosophers. If you can connect these dots, then https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illuminati_(game) might be for you! (but see also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Jackson_Games,_Inc._v._U... )

There is necessarily no cross-links between all of them, but there is a link. If you can't imagine that a state that is obsessively dreaming about the world revolution and has a wide spy network and large group of naive sympathisers doesn't try to infiltrate all the possible influential counter cultures then you are a little too naive.

> If you can't imagine that a state that is obsessively dreaming about the world revolution and has a wide spy network and large group of naive sympathisers doesn't try to infiltrate all the possible influential counter cultures then you are a little too naive.

Being able to imagine something isn't concrete proof that it exists. "There's a first time for everything" isn't literally true; plenty of totally plausible things don't end up happening.

Re: How the FBI targeted Camus, and then Sartre after the JFK assassination (2013)

#50

Post by sorokod »

gilleain wrote: post #18
thriftwy wrote: post #10

[flagged]

For examples of famous Hitler fans, one good example was Unity Mitford, one of the 6 Mitford sisters, daughters of an English baron. Unity (and her sister Diana) were so close to Hitler that they were part of his inner circle of friends. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unity_Mitford

"Hitler's British Girl", a documentary about Unity Mitford is on YouTube.
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