Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

DeepMind Co-Founder: AI Is Fundamentally a "Labor Replacing Tool"

gizmodo.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 53 posts

Re: DeepMind Co-Founder: AI Is Fundamentally a "Labor Replacing Tool"

#41

Post by leansensei »

true_religion wrote: post #22
_Algernon_ wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've gone from a single person being able to buy a house and feed a family, to two salaries in many cases not being sufficient in the past 50 years. While you're right that mass unemployment didn't happen, wage stagnation certainly did.

This seems like a very American perspective. So may I suggest that wage stagnation came from no longer having a underclass of women and people of color to be underpaid for their labor, and frozen out from the general market? Additionally, the US went from being one of the few industrial nations to not have bombed our factories and streets to having competition from other countries. Americas golden age is not really a…

When the demand for labor continuously drops but the supply increases, what happens to the ability of labor to price higher?

Re: DeepMind Co-Founder: AI Is Fundamentally a "Labor Replacing Tool"

#42

Post by tim333 »

mooreds wrote: post #33
mmh0000 wrote: post #32

As I hear about AI replacing workers, I think back to the short story “Manna” https://marshallbrain.com/manna1

I think about this all the time. Economies are human constructs and can be changed with political will.

For those lazy of reading there's the Wikipedia summary https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manna_(novel)#Plot_summary

Re: DeepMind Co-Founder: AI Is Fundamentally a "Labor Replacing Tool"

#43

Post by [deleted] »

alexwhb wrote: post #20
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Logically, employment may increase while people's standard of living may get worde at the same time? Yes it can and yes it is. I'm also baffled by people keep pointing out low unemployment like it's the be all end all of all arguments for economic prosperity. Obviously sky high unemployment like in the great depression isn't great either but just because people are forced to accept any one of the abundant gig econom…

So true. And unemployment doesn’t take into account disenfranchised workers, which is significantly higher than it has been in recent history.

[deleted]

Re: DeepMind Co-Founder: AI Is Fundamentally a "Labor Replacing Tool"

#44

Post by xnx »

alexwhb wrote: post #39
xnx wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the measure of disenfranchised workers? I couldn't find any good source.

I believe the technical economic term is “discouraged workers”. Someone correct me if I’m wrong. This is a useful resource on aspects not included in the unemployment metric: https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0609/what-the-un... .

Ah, thank you. Found some useful links here: https://www.bls.gov/cps/lfcharacteristics.htm#discouraged

Seems like this measure of discouraged workers is down over the past 10 years: https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS15026645

Re: DeepMind Co-Founder: AI Is Fundamentally a "Labor Replacing Tool"

#46

Post by RetroTechie »

leansensei wrote: post #41
true_religion wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems like a very American perspective. So may I suggest that wage stagnation came from no longer having a underclass of women and people of color to be underpaid for their labor, and frozen out from the general market? Additionally, the US went from being one of the few industrial nations to not have bombed our factories and streets to having competition from other countries. Americas golden age is not really a…

When the demand for labor continuously drops but the supply increases, what happens to the ability of labor to price higher?

That view shows how drenched our society is with laissez-faire capitalism as if it's the only thing in existence.

'Free' markets, supply & demand, governments interfering in those markets here & there, is just 1 of several options.

Some kind of UBI, "social credits" that everyone simply receives (as depicted in 2nd part of Manna) + some practical limits on resource consumption, is another option.

There are other options. And like another poster said: choice between those is one of political will. This relies on some conditions though:

1) A significant fraction (if not majority) of the population sharing a similar vision.

2) A functioning democracy.

3) Elites, corporations etc not powerful enough to subvert politics enough to prevent that vision from becoming implemented.

And

4) Absense of external forces big enough to undo progress. Effects of climate change, a huge meteor hitting Earth, aliens showing up that are out to exterminate us, another pandemic, etc, etc, etc.

So don't hold your breath. Much is possible but our odds of reaching some kind of utopia aren't great.

Re: DeepMind Co-Founder: AI Is Fundamentally a "Labor Replacing Tool"

#47

Post by mooreds »

tim333 wrote: post #42
mooreds wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think about this all the time. Economies are human constructs and can be changed with political will.

For those lazy of reading there's the Wikipedia summary https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manna_(novel)#Plot_summary

Thanks! But it really is worth reading the whole thing.

Re: DeepMind Co-Founder: AI Is Fundamentally a "Labor Replacing Tool"

#48

Post by alexwhb »

xnx wrote: post #44
alexwhb wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the technical economic term is “discouraged workers”. Someone correct me if I’m wrong. This is a useful resource on aspects not included in the unemployment metric: https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0609/what-the-un... .

Ah, thank you. Found some useful links here: https://www.bls.gov/cps/lfcharacteristics.htm#discouraged Seems like this measure of discouraged workers is down over the past 10 years: https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS15026645

I now remember what metric I was thinking of… participation rate. There was a charter data storytelling post about it a while ago that I’m not able to find. But apparently participation rate on the workforce are down. I don’t remember what time scale. But I believe that metric includes discouraged workers as well as people who have retired. But I believe the angle the article I read was talking was a post pandemic look… like lots of people retired early. I believe this has those numbers.. https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t01.htm

Here’s a chart: https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/civilian-lab...

I think this metric, like unemployment, is obviously nuanced and also could be showing an aging demographic and other such subtleties.

Re: DeepMind Co-Founder: AI Is Fundamentally a "Labor Replacing Tool"

#49

Post by xnx »

alexwhb wrote: post #48
xnx wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, thank you. Found some useful links here: https://www.bls.gov/cps/lfcharacteristics.htm#discouraged Seems like this measure of discouraged workers is down over the past 10 years: https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS15026645

I now remember what metric I was thinking of… participation rate. There was a charter data storytelling post about it a while ago that I’m not able to find. But apparently participation rate on the workforce are down. I don’t remember what time scale. But I believe that metric includes discouraged workers as well as people who have retired. But I believe the angle the article I read was talking was a post pandemic lo…

Thanks for sharing. The major disruption to the labor market caused by covid (and other long term trends) defies simple characterization. Weird times.

Re: DeepMind Co-Founder: AI Is Fundamentally a "Labor Replacing Tool"

#50

Post by alexwhb »

xnx wrote: post #49
alexwhb wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I now remember what metric I was thinking of… participation rate. There was a charter data storytelling post about it a while ago that I’m not able to find. But apparently participation rate on the workforce are down. I don’t remember what time scale. But I believe that metric includes discouraged workers as well as people who have retired. But I believe the angle the article I read was talking was a post pandemic lo…

Thanks for sharing. The major disruption to the labor market caused by covid (and other long term trends) defies simple characterization. Weird times.

Absolutely! Happy to share, and totally agree. Very strange times.
Post reply on HN