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Retired teacher's pension stopped as provider refuses to believe she is not dead

theguardian.com

41–50 of 162 posts

Re: Retired teacher's pension stopped as provider refuses to believe she is not dead

#41
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be more fair: it is easy to check if they are alive or not. This is not rocket science.

In these times, it is only easy in-person.

Even in these times, once you've done the work to disprove the alleged link, it should be easy to log that fact.

Re: Retired teacher's pension stopped as provider refuses to believe she is not dead

#42

> ... asked to confirm that they are not the same deceased stranger every 12 months since the system, administered by Capita, does not log a disproved link. This is a bug in their system. Rather than fixing it, they prefer repeatedly and unashamedly asking old people whether they are dead.

I mean, in a broader sense it isn't a bug. the government outsourced it to Capita explicitly so there's a responsibility gap into which people can fall and lose their money. it's not like these services suck and are hostile to normal people by accident - if the Powers That Be wanted it to not suck then they wouldn't structure systems like this.

There is no gap, or rather it is artificial and created on purpose. The government is accountable (not responsible, there is a difference) for the entire process to work without any gaps.

Re: Retired teacher's pension stopped as provider refuses to believe she is not dead

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love how an obvious bug that should have led to a rejection of the delivery of the system - or an emergency fix as per the support requirements these large contracts always come with - has instead transformed into official DfE policy. That's just so typical of the newfangled digital bureaucracy: it's far easier to change the workflow than it is to fix the software.

> it's far easier to change the workflow than it is to fix the software This is just something software seems to do. There's a mature and fully-fledged industry in modifying entire workflows to fit software which is implicitly viewed as something that simply is the way it is. Jira and SAP are some obvious big ones, almost with their own priesthoods, but at all levels, "capabilities drive requirements, regardless of w…

I think you will find that with many other types of technology, due to scale and interoperability effects.

For example, when the automobile breakthrough happened, manufacturers quickly converged to an "average" design that was cheap to manufacture in large numbers, captured the main strengths of the technology, and happened to suit the average small city, rural or suburban lifestyle where most of the potential customers lived.

Now, this machine was not suitable for a small mountain village. Nor was it suitable for dense urban environments. You could design automobiles specifically for those markets - for example, a much more compact closed two seater, that would save fuel, road and parking space. But you couldn't produce it at a scale that could make it profitable against the dominant design, and the clients would face difficulty, risk and even ridicule when using the dominant "big car" infrastructure.

So what we got instead was a redesign of the city to suit the dominant technology variant, with what we can confidently say today were disastrous results. Just like your Jira consultants, starting from the 60s an entire cottage industry appeared advising cities on how to correctly plan road infrastructure of sufficient "capacity", how to set minimum parking requirements, etc.

If you happen to fall right on the average case of a technology, you gain almost magical benefits and substantial competitive advantages. So your competitors will try to emulate your success even if they don't fit the same pattern. If the interoperability and scale effects are strong, and customization is difficult, we should expect a similar pattern to emerge. And with software, you have both insane scale effects (every copy sold after the first costs zero dollars to make), and strong lock-in effects (file formats and protocols, inherent complexity which leads to a limited talent pool - both your employees and suppliers aren't willing to waste time and effort into a custom technological dead-end for which you are the only potential client etc.).

Re: Retired teacher's pension stopped as provider refuses to believe she is not dead

#45

> ... asked to confirm that they are not the same deceased stranger every 12 months since the system, administered by Capita, does not log a disproved link. This is a bug in their system. Rather than fixing it, they prefer repeatedly and unashamedly asking old people whether they are dead.

To be fair, there have been several stories (normally "world's oldest person!!!" type) where relatives have been claiming pensions and benefits for sometimes decades after the actual person died. Whether the number of those stories and the amount of money involved is worth the hassle to the people not defrauding governments is left as an exercise to the reader...

Reminds me of Sogen Kato's story :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sogen_Kato

Re: Retired teacher's pension stopped as provider refuses to believe she is not dead

#46
Barclays closed my mother’s bank accounts because they thought she had died. It was a “clerical error” ie someone had received a death certificate and processed it with about as much rigour as a 2 year old could muster.

They sorted it within 5 days though and paid out compensation and sent her a hamper as an apology. Hopefully they fired the moron who kicked off the process too.

At the end of the day this shit happens but this should trigger a full review and pause all destructive outcomes immediately as mitigation. But being Capita I doubt it will happen.

Re: Retired teacher's pension stopped as provider refuses to believe she is not dead

#47
> vetting procedure that regularly checks pension beneficiaries against the death register to prevent ineligible payments. According to the Department for Education (DfE), which oversees Teachers’ Pensions, death register entries may be matched to scheme members even if personal details differ.

Well, that's dumb.

Re: Retired teacher's pension stopped as provider refuses to believe she is not dead

#48

Just shows how generally unfathomable weird it is that most of the world does not have a uuid for a person assigned at birth - like the nordics do

In the Netherlands it's not literally a UUID, but everybody does have a number.

Re: Retired teacher's pension stopped as provider refuses to believe she is not dead

#50
Every year my grand parents have to take a photo of themselves holding a recent newspaper with date clearly visible to whoever is managing their pension.

After the internet and apps plaged the world, now they have to download an app then tilt node and wink to the camera to prove that they are alive. ("If you cannot use a phone, ask your children")

I have mixed feeling about this, it's hard to say this is not degenerating, and no one's happy with doing this, but seems like there's no better idea that scales.

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