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Norwegian youth win climate court case against the Norwegian State

greenpeace.org

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Re: Norwegian youth win climate court case against the Norwegian State

#41

Post by wahnfrieden »

pretendgeneer wrote: post #23
Luc wrote: post #15

Isn't Greenpeace's ideology aligned with degrowth nowadays? I remember reading how they were against carbon capture (and, of course, geo-engineering).

Being against Carbon Capture and geo-engineering is just following the science. Carbon capture has constantly been shown to just not work at any scale. and geo-engineering causes so many extra problems and will absolutely lead to termination shock at some point.

Ideologues won’t accept it because they are waiting for a technology solution and these are the best they’ve seen offered so far. Their optimism is predicated on market driven technology solutions saving us quickly enough. Negativity toward their favorite technology solutions is interpreted as pessimism toward their ideology.

Re: Norwegian youth win climate court case against the Norwegian State

#44

Post by codetrotter »

newsclues wrote: post #35
pretendgeneer wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being against Carbon Capture and geo-engineering is just following the science. Carbon capture has constantly been shown to just not work at any scale. and geo-engineering causes so many extra problems and will absolutely lead to termination shock at some point.

You understand “following the science” arguments are stupid right?

No. Why?

Re: Norwegian youth win climate court case against the Norwegian State

#46

Post by brutusborn »

pretendgeneer wrote: post #23
Luc wrote: post #15

Isn't Greenpeace's ideology aligned with degrowth nowadays? I remember reading how they were against carbon capture (and, of course, geo-engineering).

Being against Carbon Capture and geo-engineering is just following the science. Carbon capture has constantly been shown to just not work at any scale. and geo-engineering causes so many extra problems and will absolutely lead to termination shock at some point.

Carbon capture is being successfully used all around the world. It’s in its infancy, but so were solar panels decades ago, and we didn’t give up on them.

We don’t have enough data on geoengineering to judge yet, there is no real science to follow.

Also I don’t understand this attitude of rejecting potential solutions outright. Science doesn’t “prove” things, we can’t ‘follow’ it due to the problem of induction. So we should stay open minded and support all potential solutions, not just those we like best.

Re: Norwegian youth win climate court case against the Norwegian State

#47

Post by legitster »

pretendgeneer wrote: post #23
Luc wrote: post #15

Isn't Greenpeace's ideology aligned with degrowth nowadays? I remember reading how they were against carbon capture (and, of course, geo-engineering).

Being against Carbon Capture and geo-engineering is just following the science. Carbon capture has constantly been shown to just not work at any scale. and geo-engineering causes so many extra problems and will absolutely lead to termination shock at some point.

> geo-engineering causes so many extra problems and will absolutely lead to termination shock at some point.

This doesn't sound like a terribly scientific assessment.

Climate change is either an environmental disaster and geoengineering would be a huge risk - or climate change is an existential threat to humanity in which case we have nothing to lose. Which is it?

Re: Norwegian youth win climate court case against the Norwegian State

#48

Post by hutzlibu »

xiphias2 wrote: post #21

I would strongly support focusing on getting rid of wood / coal burning first instead of going for much more efficient gas. An import tax on coal burning countries (especially China) would push the incentives in the right direction instead of outsourcing the climate externalities to them.

"China is the world's leader in electricity production from renewable energy sources, with over triple the generation of the second-ranking country, the United States. China's renewable energy sector is growing faster than its fossil fuels and nuclear power capacity"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_China

There are many things you can say about china, but they do take climate change serious (maybe because they have already problems with desertification).

Re: Norwegian youth win climate court case against the Norwegian State

#49

Post by was_a_dev »

newsclues wrote: post #35
pretendgeneer wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being against Carbon Capture and geo-engineering is just following the science. Carbon capture has constantly been shown to just not work at any scale. and geo-engineering causes so many extra problems and will absolutely lead to termination shock at some point.

You understand “following the science” arguments are stupid right?

It isn't if you aren't a scientist in that field. As you're not qualified to do otherwise.

As a physicist in quantum sensing. I follow the science (opinion) of climate scientists as they're the experts of that field. And that opinion is constantly evolving, but I follow that.

Anything else is just being an armchair scientist.

Re: Norwegian youth win climate court case against the Norwegian State

#50

Post by brutusborn »

codetrotter wrote: post #44
newsclues wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You understand “following the science” arguments are stupid right?

No. Why?

Because science just updates our beliefs, it doesn’t produce ‘truths’ that we can follow. See the Problem of Induction or the Duhem–Quine thesis.
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