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Kids of parents making $158.2-222.4k/yr have worst odds of Ivy League acceptance

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Re: Kids of parents making $158.2-222.4k/yr have worst odds of Ivy League acceptance

#41

Post by tptacek »

rayiner wrote: post #40
tptacek wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In which states can't you? California? You're a mortal lock for Illinois with those stats.

I don’t know, I’m asking. Have state flagships become that competitive? I got into UIUC, Perdue, and GT (all top 50) with a similar SAT and much worse GPA. But that was 22 years ago. I think GT had a 60% acceptance rate my year. But University of Maryland, which wasn’t even on my radar back then, somehow has an SAT median of 1450 now. That used to near-Ivy range back when I was applying.

Madison, Illinois, and Michigan are competitive, but I don't think any of them are competitive to the point where top tier grades and test scores aren't getting you in anymore.

Re: Kids of parents making $158.2-222.4k/yr have worst odds of Ivy League acceptance

#42

Post by rayiner »

sokoloff wrote: post #38
voicedYoda wrote: post #5

But i don't want my kids going to ivy League. I want them to study what they need to know, have fun, and explore. We aren't rich, and they know that, and that level of stuffy education would be better in graduate or post grad, when they pay you to study there.

I want my kids to go where they want to go. If that happens to be Ivy, so be it. If that happens to be MIT/Caltech/Stanford, so be it. When parents lament or worry about their kids not being able to get into Ivy League schools, I think it's less about those specific eight institutions and more about whatever selective college they might want to attend.

In my culture—which I think is right on this—individuals are subordinate to the family. I want my kids to go to an Ivy (or in the case of my eldest son, a service academy) because those are important to success in business and politics, and that’s what I want my kids to pursue—for the success of the family unit. That doesn’t mean I want to go to one, or regret not having gone to one—what I want for my kids is quite independent of what I want myself.

Re: Kids of parents making $158.2-222.4k/yr have worst odds of Ivy League acceptance

#43

Post by appplication »

BuckYeah wrote: post #34

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, affirmative action was a red herring meant to distract from the real barrier to multigenerational economic-growth. It’s always been about money/class. Diversity matters, but would politicians have voted against the interests of their own progeny? I think not.

Affirmative action also serves as a zero-sum wedge issue amongst the working class, which is great for reinforcing existing political lines and demographics.

Re: Kids of parents making $158.2-222.4k/yr have worst odds of Ivy League acceptance

#44

Post by whateveracct »

darkwizard42 wrote: post #32
whateveracct wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was my conclusion as teen too. I went to in-state to a Big-10 school with one of the automatic merit scholarships based on ACT/SAT scores. Still got a great job out of college and moved out west to work at a FAANG (they recruited at my university). Pretty much a top outcome money wise I would've gotten at MIT (where I did get in).

This is classic survivorship bias. For every student that did make it out of those schools and did make it to FAANG, there are many many many more. A much higher % of university recruiting happens at MIT/Berkeley/CMU and as you mentioned, many of the in-state schools barely get recruited. It definitely makes things easier IF you get in and IF you use the resources of the school to their full potential. Lot of ifs, bu…

It's not quite survivorship bias.

I bet on myself and it wasn't an uneducated bet. I figured I would end up in the same place regardless because I had been reading about research on college outcomes. I read that intelligent people tend to end up with the same level of success in life regardless of university. Made sense to me.

Given where my career has taken me since, I'm especially confident I would be in the same sort of place. If anything, going to the state school I went to is both what introduced me to my career focus (professional FP & Haskell) and first job (got a referral from a friend for FAANG. He was pretty savvy - had an older brother in SV tech - and told me tips such as job hopping for a raise every 2y or so).

Re: Kids of parents making $158.2-222.4k/yr have worst odds of Ivy League acceptance

#45

Post by whateveracct »

onetimeusename wrote: post #33
darkwizard42 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is classic survivorship bias. For every student that did make it out of those schools and did make it to FAANG, there are many many many more. A much higher % of university recruiting happens at MIT/Berkeley/CMU and as you mentioned, many of the in-state schools barely get recruited. It definitely makes things easier IF you get in and IF you use the resources of the school to their full potential. Lot of ifs, bu…

I think this is definitely the case for certain classes of jobs but I am skeptical about the value of those jobs. For example, I think that consulting firm McKinsey does some kind of recruitment and job interview on campus during spring and then they announce who they are hiring for the next summer internship in Autumn. A lot of people try to get in and then there is kind of a weird thing on campus where people talk…

> weird status game

Culture was another reason I chose state school over MIT (and didn't even consider any other fancy schools). I don't really have a good word for it, but I got a bad smell and haven't regretted it.

Re: Kids of parents making $158.2-222.4k/yr have worst odds of Ivy League acceptance

#46

Post by whateveracct »

credit_guy wrote: post #36
whateveracct wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was my conclusion as teen too. I went to in-state to a Big-10 school with one of the automatic merit scholarships based on ACT/SAT scores. Still got a great job out of college and moved out west to work at a FAANG (they recruited at my university). Pretty much a top outcome money wise I would've gotten at MIT (where I did get in).

> I would've gotten at MIT (where I did get in). Not sure I follow. You got admitted at MIT and decided to go to a Big-10 school? Is Big-10 the Big Ten Conference, with Ohio State and U Michigan? You really did that? Have you ever seen this ? https://sfs.mit.edu/undergraduate-students/the-cost-of-atten... > 58% of full-time undergraduates received an MIT Scholarship during the 2022–2023 academic year. Among those, th…

1. My contribution was even lower. No need to take out a single loan.

2. I (and my parents) actually did dig into the real cost. It was more than that. It was doable but with loans and/or my parents dipping into funds well beyond their college savings for me.

Not sure I would've gone even if the costs were closer tbh. Culture fit is important.

Re: Kids of parents making $158.2-222.4k/yr have worst odds of Ivy League acceptance

#47

Post by [deleted] »

huehehue wrote: post #29
rayiner wrote: post #18

> Amanda’s daughter Marie attended private school, speaks Mandarin, had an unweighted GPA of 4.1, and earned a 1560 on the SAT… Marie currently attends a university that did not make the U.S. News & World Report list of top-50 public schools How is it possible not to get into a state flagship with a 1500+ SAT? If I was white or Asian with college aged kids I’d move to Texas or Georgia.

Probably because these colleges have 5,000 Maries to choose from. The article says Marie is perfect on paper and "checks all the boxes", but that's honestly not very inspiring and I'd guess that applicants/parents are optimizing for the wrong things. > “She’s happy but often says, ‘Mom, I just wish I hadn’t studied. I would have gotten into the exact same schools.’” And Marie is probably right. Admissions scarcity is…

[deleted]

Re: Kids of parents making $158.2-222.4k/yr have worst odds of Ivy League acceptance

#48

Post by jeremiahbuckley »

aluminum96 wrote: post #30
horns4lyfe wrote: post #15

Ivy leagues have never been about finding the highest performers or potential; they’ve always been about giving rich kids the opportunity to network with other rich kids. The new twist is adding just enough diversity to make them feel better without being threatening. The sooner us normies stop playing their game and despise those institutions appropriately, the better off we’ll be.

Ivy league schools need some high performers, in the sense that they mix admits for intelligence, wealth, diversity, athletic ability, and other factors. Clearly, many smart students attend Harvard. But so do donor kids. When you hire a Harvard grad, you can't tell which graduate you are hiring! That's a huge part of the value proposition for the wealthy. Harvard needs to admit enough truly smart students.

Interesting point. Couldn’t this be solved for by Linked In and Google now? Find the candidates’ parents and then you have your answer. ( Of course, your company may choose to hire a legacy candidate for some of the same political benefits the college accepted them. )

Re: Kids of parents making $158.2-222.4k/yr have worst odds of Ivy League acceptance

#49

Post by UncleMeat »

BuckYeah wrote: post #34

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, affirmative action was a red herring meant to distract from the real barrier to multigenerational economic-growth. It’s always been about money/class. Diversity matters, but would politicians have voted against the interests of their own progeny? I think not.

I'm not so cynical. Affirmative Action is generally a policy with good intentions behind it (addressing historical inequity) but is limited because institutions are not willing to take steps that address the full breadth of inequity. I do not believe that Affirmative Action was some sort of cover to get institutions out of the spotlight.

Re: Kids of parents making $158.2-222.4k/yr have worst odds of Ivy League acceptance

#50

Post by pcwalton »

rayiner wrote: post #18

> Amanda’s daughter Marie attended private school, speaks Mandarin, had an unweighted GPA of 4.1, and earned a 1560 on the SAT… Marie currently attends a university that did not make the U.S. News & World Report list of top-50 public schools How is it possible not to get into a state flagship with a 1500+ SAT? If I was white or Asian with college aged kids I’d move to Texas or Georgia.

Bad idea re. Texas. UT Austin is extremely difficult to get into nowadays.
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