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Cloudflare lays off new hires

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Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires

#41

Post by paulryanrogers »

skywhopper wrote: post #13

I hate this so much. I once worked at a place that did a layoff and caught a person who’d been a two-time intern and had just been hired out of college that same week . There’s no reason the company couldn’t have re-assigned her elsewhere. She’d already proven her value! What a waste to throw away the opportunity for a known-good new hire who could ramp up quickly, and what a horrible thing to inflict on someone just…

Why didn't they freeze hiring long before reaching the point of needing layoffs?!

Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires

#42

Post by sneed_chucker »

forward1 wrote: post #33
sneed_chucker wrote: post #3

I wonder if the US will ever get first-world tier labor laws that prevent companies from screwing people over like this. Doesn't seem likely any time soon, but it's so insane how healthcare and everything is tied to an employer and in most places they can just fire you on a whim and not offer severance or anything.

Employees are equally free to "screw over" companies by terminating their employment at any time; at-will is a two-way street. That seems like a fair and faithful manifestation of a free market. Health care and insurance is also available without an employer, at least in the US.

> Employees are equally free to "screw over" companies by terminating their employment at any time; at-will is a two-way street.

Wow. I guess that might seem like a convincing argument if you totally ignore the power imbalance between a terminated employee who loses the ability to pay for basic necessities vs a company that loses the labor of a single person.

Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires

#44

Post by xpe »

whalesalad wrote: post #11
candiddevmike wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

> I believe it’s your duty on the earth to provide value in some way.

I agree to some degree in an ethical sense, but not absolutely. Some have more ability and opportunity to contribute than others. And, the devil is in the details. Additional, I am not necessarily willing to extend such views of one's _ethical_ duty in such a way to _operationalize_ them as a political philosophy or to state them as _normative_ on the economic level.

When I hear simplified statements along the lines of "if person X (or category of people Y) can't pull their weight, they'll get what they deserve" I don't hear anything resembling ethical insight nor wisdom; I mostly hear the fearful rationalizations of short-term thinking.

Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires

#46

Post by davexunit »

forward1 wrote: post #33
sneed_chucker wrote: post #3

I wonder if the US will ever get first-world tier labor laws that prevent companies from screwing people over like this. Doesn't seem likely any time soon, but it's so insane how healthcare and everything is tied to an employer and in most places they can just fire you on a whim and not offer severance or anything.

Employees are equally free to "screw over" companies by terminating their employment at any time; at-will is a two-way street. That seems like a fair and faithful manifestation of a free market. Health care and insurance is also available without an employer, at least in the US.

Yup individual employees are definitely on equal footing with companies and health care is very affordable when purchased individually. The free market is very good and fair and everything is going just fine!

Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires

#47

Post by mp05 »

the_optimist wrote: post #26
skywhopper wrote: post #13

I hate this so much. I once worked at a place that did a layoff and caught a person who’d been a two-time intern and had just been hired out of college that same week . There’s no reason the company couldn’t have re-assigned her elsewhere. She’d already proven her value! What a waste to throw away the opportunity for a known-good new hire who could ramp up quickly, and what a horrible thing to inflict on someone just…

Not the corporations, the Fed. The Fed introduces high correlation, compels outsized urgency and economic volatility, and directly sets unemployment targets.

Surely, the Federal Reserve has a good reason for everything they do. Surely.

Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires

#48

Post by whalesalad »

akira2501 wrote: post #22
whalesalad wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I didn't ask to be born therefore I have no duties to you or to anyone other than myself. You accepted no duty to ensure my life was protected from harm or that it's circumstances were fair. You can talk sensibly about global reproductive control once you've ensured that everyone's life is fair and just. Humans are animals. We individually self regulate or we would die. We collectively don't which is why we were able…

Animals eat each other. They feed other animals. They spread seeds to propagate plant life. Their decomposing bodies fertilize the earth. There is an ecosystem that exists.

Humans don’t have any predators. We’ve created a society where everyone feels entitled to exist. Animals don’t feel entitled to exist. They fight daily to survive. We fight daily to play the game that us humans created. It’s not real, it’s all fabricated: 401k’s, board member seats, search engine optimization, globalization, offshore manufacturing, advertising revenue, taxes, traffic lights, the NFL, American idol, TikTok dances, Prada clothing, Stanley cups, business casual, country clubs.

We have created the mess we are in. And there is too much momentum/inertia to shift course. We (as a society) will keep running on this treadmill until we collapse from exhaustion and hubris.

Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires

#49

Post by mc32 »

Klonoar wrote: post #43

Discord and some other companies also appear to be doing layoffs, at this point just do a megathread. Wonder why they all announce today.

They probably wanted to avoid the sharp criticism if they laid them off just before christmas... So that's all over, time for the chopping block to come out.

Re: Cloudflare lays off new hires

#50

Post by [deleted] »

forward1 wrote: post #33
sneed_chucker wrote: post #3

I wonder if the US will ever get first-world tier labor laws that prevent companies from screwing people over like this. Doesn't seem likely any time soon, but it's so insane how healthcare and everything is tied to an employer and in most places they can just fire you on a whim and not offer severance or anything.

Employees are equally free to "screw over" companies by terminating their employment at any time; at-will is a two-way street. That seems like a fair and faithful manifestation of a free market. Health care and insurance is also available without an employer, at least in the US.

[deleted]
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