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Feynman: I am burned out and I'll never accomplish anything (1985)

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Re: Feynman: I am burned out and I'll never accomplish anything (1985)

#41
post #32
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

burnout = depression

You are right, but the hard part for me is determining the causality here. Am I depressed because I’m burnt out, or am I feeling burnt out because I’m depressed?

I suspect treatment will be much the same in either case.

Re: Feynman: I am burned out and I'll never accomplish anything (1985)

#42
The pandemic burned me out pretty hard after a lifelong obsession with computers, tinkering around with technology back when it was more of a hobby than a commercial pursuit. It was nice to be able to parley my passion into a career, but contact with the world of business tends to corrupt what I always viewed as a form of play and artistic expression.

I like simple technologies like IRC. You don't need K8s clusters or deployment pipelines. String together everything with a smattering of bash because nothing is really at stake. It's easy to get started since the tech is as simple as it gets, and there's nothing actually on the line. You can practice using obscure languages never seen in industry. Do things because they make you laugh, not to build a portfolio or a product. At the least, I can still crank out a modest amount of code and actually enjoy the process, without tearing my hair out over whatever asinine enterprise-scale clusterfuck needs to be untangled now.

Still waiting for whatever is next.

Re: Feynman: I am burned out and I'll never accomplish anything (1985)

#43
post #13

As a researcher, I’ve felt largely the same way lately. It’s been hard for me to even wrap up a project I was so excited about when I started it that I missed sleep because I was that engaged. Unfortunately, I don’t have a cozy tenure position at a major research institution to ride out the burnout until I feel inspired again. I’m just a lowly postdoc. I’ve thought about leaving the research life for a regular job, b…

I'm in a similar position. At the end of my PhD I feel like I want to drop out. I do ML research and I just lost faith in the academic system.

Research is my absolute favorite thing to do but everything else surrounding it I just absolutely hate and it feels draining and worthless. Ideas get dismissed without explanations (even after asking), publication process is incredibly noisy and when you get a nonsensical review (I can share) people just say "shit happens" or "weird" and then it happens again and again, and advisors and managers want weekly updates but visible progress in a project goes through wild cycles of lots of work with little to nothing to show vs low work where it looks like lots of progress is made (e.g. tuning models). It just feels like hell. I'm always thinking about my projects because they sincerely interest and captivate me but I feel like the systems we have built around what is entirely a creative process is structured for routine work. I'm being asked to do things that have never been done before -- and I love this, it is the ultimate puzzle -- but how the fuck do you expect me to give accurate ETAs and to do this 3-5 times a year and launch ground breaking work with some 2080Ti nodes and maybe one A100 node? How ground breaking of work can it be if it is done in a few months? I am supposed to do this by myself and compete against a team of Google engineers? This publish or perish paradigm is absolute bullshit and we're at a point where fucking Nvidia asked for a new PhD to have 8 top conference 1st author publications.

Therapy and medication definitely help, and I were I not to start them I, without a doubt, would have dropped out. But I think we need to have a very serious discussion about the systems that we have in place and how we're continually shooting ourselves in the foot with this fucking rat race. Maybe I'm just a bad researcher, because it does seem that there are a lot of highly successful people. But if I'm being honest, when I talk to those people I can't see anything that they are doing different other than opportunities/resources and possibly better mentoring. There are of course people that stand out and I can definitely see their genius when talking to them, but for the vast majority of researchers I really can't tell what makes the difference between making it and breaking it. I can't tell what makes a paper work and not work.

I really just want to spend my days reading math books, hacking away at ML systems, and trying to understand what this whole thing around consciousness, intelligence, and sentience is. But I don't know how to make this life. It isn't academia and it isn't industry. So how do I be born rich? Can we get to post scarcity yet?

Re: Feynman: I am burned out and I'll never accomplish anything (1985)

#44
post #14
post #13

As a researcher, I’ve felt largely the same way lately. It’s been hard for me to even wrap up a project I was so excited about when I started it that I missed sleep because I was that engaged. Unfortunately, I don’t have a cozy tenure position at a major research institution to ride out the burnout until I feel inspired again. I’m just a lowly postdoc. I’ve thought about leaving the research life for a regular job, b…

burnout = depression

I thought I was burnt out and just recently found out I had an undiagnosed chronic illness, so that’s a possibility too…

Re: Feynman: I am burned out and I'll never accomplish anything (1985)

#45
post #13

As a researcher, I’ve felt largely the same way lately. It’s been hard for me to even wrap up a project I was so excited about when I started it that I missed sleep because I was that engaged. Unfortunately, I don’t have a cozy tenure position at a major research institution to ride out the burnout until I feel inspired again. I’m just a lowly postdoc. I’ve thought about leaving the research life for a regular job, b…

Not sure it would help, but it may: adopt a rescue animal, if you're a pet oriented person, and don't already have one, and it may jar your perspectives in multiple dimensions as to what is fun, what is entertaining, what is meaningful. That worked for me when i felt like you describe.

Only do this if you're serious. Depending on the animal you could very well just add another negative thing to your life. There are upsides, sure, but there's nothing that feels great about walking into your bedroom and getting a nasty look from an animal you put hours upon hours of work in per week for because they don't like humans.

Re: Feynman: I am burned out and I'll never accomplish anything (1985)

#46
post #10

I'm not a mental health connoisseur or anything, but removing your own pressure to perform seems like good advice regardless of your circumstances. If you're tired or stressed or whatever, labeling yourself as "a burned out person" seems to me like the only good thing it does is add more pressure. Because how can you do well if you're "damaged" in some way? It's important to not just do old style sweep it under the r…

I view burnout as a psychic wound. You should be aware of it to treat and not let it fester. At the same time, if you are always messing with it then it won’t heal.

I agree there is probably a balance, and we are currently focusing too hard on it. I’ve had the same thought about the obsession about childhood trauma from people with average upbringings.

But both parents and work have heavy influences on how we live our lives, so who else are you going to blame? Yourself? Don’t be silly.

Re: Feynman: I am burned out and I'll never accomplish anything (1985)

#47

While this passage is inspiring, it boils down to: 1. Get good at something 2. Get paid for doing it 3. Get burned out by doing it 4. Return to the fun way of doing it 5. ??? 6. Win a Nobel prize or similar How repeatable is that pattern? Is that one of the patterns we want to teach the next generation? Serious question. I don't know the answer. Feynman is obviously rather exceptional. Should we encourage people to f…

Most people aren’t Feynman and won’t get a Nobel prize whatever strategy they follow.

Finding a fun way to do things does seem like it produces better solutions, though. I mean, if you dread reading about your solution, what do you expect from people who don’t even want to devote their life to it?

Re: Feynman: I am burned out and I'll never accomplish anything (1985)

#48
The other day I had remarked to an old gal (the proprietor) of a local strip mall toy store that I walked into on a whim that "really this is where it all started". Round hole, square block diagonally (almost anyway); oh that can's label so perfectly lines up with the tiling of this table when it's rolled across it; oh that soap dispenser pump has the -same threading- as this vodka bottle and screws on just easy...and so on. It would turn out that that old gal wrote a bunch of code for some local military contractors waaay back when and had quite the reputation for connecting the unlikeliest of systems together. The corporate types would naysay whether a thing could be done, and she'd have it back on their desk within 3 hours. And now she runs a toy store, and loves it!!! Feeling burned out myself, I took from that conversation some modicum of hope that looking at problems as //play// is what I need personally-- and prospects look better for it! Happy to hear that Feynman would agree.

Re: Feynman: I am burned out and I'll never accomplish anything (1985)

#49
post #32
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

burnout = depression

You are right, but the hard part for me is determining the causality here. Am I depressed because I’m burnt out, or am I feeling burnt out because I’m depressed?

I usually try to avoid engaging in armchair psychology, but "the burnout has penetrated so many facets of my life (various hobbies, etc.)" makes me think it's depression causing the burnout rather than the other way around.

Re: Feynman: I am burned out and I'll never accomplish anything (1985)

#50

For a really cool video from the International Space Station about a phenomenon related to the spinning plate stuff, see here: Dancing T-handle in zero-g, HD https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1n-HMSCDYtM

That is really interesting. I know it's not correct to simulate rigid body dynamics as constant unless an outside force is applied, but what to do differently is not obvious to me. That looks like the object changes orientation while it's world-coordinates momentum vector remains unchanged. Got any references for why that happens?

I mean orientation changes regarding the flip, not the obvious spinning motion.

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