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Gmail and Yahoo’s 2024 inbox protections and what they mean for email programs

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Re: Gmail and Yahoo’s 2024 inbox protections and what they mean for email programs

#41

Post by xyzzy123 »

judge2020 wrote: post #21
zinekeller wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually when talking about spam filtering it's based on sending IP and not domain names (domains are still important, but IP addresses are usually the first thing that is being evaluated), although admittedly Google is vague on what constitutes "5,000 mails per day".

The linked article points to blog.google which points to this support article https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126 which then finally points to this article: https://support.google.com/a/answer/14229414 > What is a bulk sender? > A bulk sender is any email sender that sends close to 5,000 or more messages to personal Gmail accounts within a 24-hour period. Messages sent from the same primary domain count towa…

It would also allow a pretty trivial bypass using ipv6. A sizeable % of ip-based rate limits are breakable if you can use v6; iirc for a long time google web properties had bypassable rate limits if you knew about this.

Re: Gmail and Yahoo’s 2024 inbox protections and what they mean for email programs

#42

Post by darylteo »

orliesaurus wrote: post #40
darylteo wrote: post #32

How does this interact with transactional emails / 2FA / password resets? If 5000 people request a 2fa code in a month, I have to give them a unsubscribe header as well? Or magic login links? If I don't provide a list-unsubscribe header: do these emails then get blocked and noone can log in ? If I provide a list-unsubscribe header, what is the expected behaviour if they do click the Unsubscribe button? - tell them th…

You're talking about Transactional emails? You cant unsubscribe from TRANSACTIONAL emails. That's why they're transactional...not marketing. It's really important to differentiate that.

I "know" that.

I'm asking how does Google differentiate between a transactional and a non transactional email?

They also say in their guidelines

> *Marketing messages and subscribed messages* must support one-click unsubscribe, and include a clearly visible unsubscribe link in the message body.

So how is Google determining what is a Marketing/Subscribed message? If they're not, then am I required to tack on this header to ALL emails regardless of type or risk getting binned?

Re: Gmail and Yahoo’s 2024 inbox protections and what they mean for email programs

#43

Post by kaetemi »

rbut wrote: post #37
kaetemi wrote: post #35

Is there any service that can process DMARC report e-mails? Those mails with zips with indecipherable XMLs inside them are a bit useless. Something that takes the junk, gives a nice human readable dashboard, and informs me if something is wrong, would be nice.

Postmark have a free DMARC service [1] that emails you a report once a week. I use it for all my domains. Note that they also have a paid offering, but this one is free. [1] https://dmarc.postmarkapp.com

This looks very easy to set up, thanks. I'll try it tomorrow.

Re: Gmail and Yahoo’s 2024 inbox protections and what they mean for email programs

#44

Post by orliesaurus »

darylteo wrote: post #42
orliesaurus wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're talking about Transactional emails? You cant unsubscribe from TRANSACTIONAL emails. That's why they're transactional...not marketing. It's really important to differentiate that.

I "know" that. I'm asking how does Google differentiate between a transactional and a non transactional email? They also say in their guidelines > *Marketing messages and subscribed messages* must support one-click unsubscribe, and include a clearly visible unsubscribe link in the message body. So how is Google determining what is a Marketing/Subscribed message? If they're not, then am I required to tack on this head…

Ahhh I see what you mean now, but it wasn't clear in your initial question.

Gmail's algorithms analyzes, and has been doing over the last ~20 years, a combination of factors to classify emails as promotional or transactional!

Nothing in the code itself of your email will indicate that, other than the presence of an unsub link + the rest of the footer (which is the obvious sign that's a marketing email)

Re: Gmail and Yahoo’s 2024 inbox protections and what they mean for email programs

#45

Post by j16sdiz »

xyzzy123 wrote: post #41
judge2020 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The linked article points to blog.google which points to this support article https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126 which then finally points to this article: https://support.google.com/a/answer/14229414 > What is a bulk sender? > A bulk sender is any email sender that sends close to 5,000 or more messages to personal Gmail accounts within a 24-hour period. Messages sent from the same primary domain count towa…

It would also allow a pretty trivial bypass using ipv6. A sizeable % of ip-based rate limits are breakable if you can use v6; iirc for a long time google web properties had bypassable rate limits if you knew about this.

Have you tried it?

In my experience, gmail is lot stricter on ipv6. They have been requiring SPF and rDNS on IPv6 before this announcement.

Re: Gmail and Yahoo’s 2024 inbox protections and what they mean for email programs

#46

Post by petre »

OkGoDoIt wrote: post #31
Analemma_ wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's very odd to me. Where are you located? I'm in the United States and virtually all my newsletter/marketing emails have one-click unsubscribe these days. The only ones which don't are from foreign companies, e.g. I bought a day planner from Hobonichi and found they put their unsubscribe behind a login, to my irritation.

I’d say somewhere around half of the marking emails I receive in the USA have one-click unsubscribe. It’s still very common to have unsubscribe links that require you to enter your email address and then select that you actually want to unsubscribe from everything, etc. And some of them still require logins, although those are getting rarer. Not sure if it’s actually a loophole, but one of the dark patterns I’m seein…

Github unsubscribe is behind a login. Very annoying. We have an account with a company e-mail that is an alias to admins and it was subscribed to a few issues. One morning I got so annoyed with Thunderbird's not working message filters that I took the time to look up the password, login, unsubscribe and disable all nuisance e-mail communication.

Re: Gmail and Yahoo’s 2024 inbox protections and what they mean for email programs

#47

Post by tsycho »

darylteo wrote: post #32

How does this interact with transactional emails / 2FA / password resets? If 5000 people request a 2fa code in a month, I have to give them a unsubscribe header as well? Or magic login links? If I don't provide a list-unsubscribe header: do these emails then get blocked and noone can log in ? If I provide a list-unsubscribe header, what is the expected behaviour if they do click the Unsubscribe button? - tell them th…

Their algorithms very likely look at (I hope so, at least) spam marking rates. I would bet that users mark promotional emails at a order of magnitude higher rate than transactional emails.

Re: Gmail and Yahoo’s 2024 inbox protections and what they mean for email programs

#48

Post by jcrites »

darylteo wrote: post #42
orliesaurus wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're talking about Transactional emails? You cant unsubscribe from TRANSACTIONAL emails. That's why they're transactional...not marketing. It's really important to differentiate that.

I "know" that. I'm asking how does Google differentiate between a transactional and a non transactional email? They also say in their guidelines > *Marketing messages and subscribed messages* must support one-click unsubscribe, and include a clearly visible unsubscribe link in the message body. So how is Google determining what is a Marketing/Subscribed message? If they're not, then am I required to tack on this head…

If you’re sending transactional emails like password resets or MFA, then the emails will have close to a 100% open rate. This is (likely) an important factor that Google uses to judge whether email is transactional, or more generally whether it is desired by recipients, alongside other factors like having a very low complaint rate.
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