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Two physicists who correctly predicted the mass of Higgs boson [video]

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Re: Two physicists who correctly predicted the mass of Higgs boson [video]

#41

Post by saagarjha »

bawolff wrote: post #16
saagarjha wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sabine is, uh, somewhat controversial.

> Sabine is, uh, somewhat controversial. At the same time people never really seem to be able to give a reasonable explanation as to why, beyond that they disagree with some of her takes.

Why she’s controversial? That’s easy, it’s because she repeatedly pushes theories that are not widely accepted and disagrees vocally with the direction that she thinks physics is going in. This means that almost every discussion of her devolves into “wow she is a genius who is speaking truth to an entrenched and rigid field” versus “she’s a crank that just says unsubstantiated stuff for popularity”. This means that any comment section that involves her is somewhat tiresome, honestly.

Re: Two physicists who correctly predicted the mass of Higgs boson [video]

#42

Post by saagarjha »

kragen wrote: post #13
saagarjha wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many that are worth listening to are controversial. But many that are controversial are not worth listening to. Which is which is a hard question to answer :)

yes, but this means that if you divide people into those with controversial opinions, and those without, you should direct 100% of your listening to the first group. at some point you will have to be more selective than that, but that's clearly the first step

I said “many”, not all. There’s plenty of leeway to listen to established experts on boring things. You don’t have to be at the cutting edge of every single field, all the time. Nobody needs to listen to controversial opinions about the shape of the planet.

Re: Two physicists who correctly predicted the mass of Higgs boson [video]

#43

Post by Joel_Mckay »

hyperthesis wrote: post #35
Joel_Mckay wrote: post #10

“My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who do the work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was much less competition there.” (Indira Gandhi)

It's amazing how impressive your achievements can be if you don't mind who gets the credit. https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/12/21/doing-good-selfless...

True, unless you were a child hunted by cannibals during the Soviet era famines.

My observation is simply that giving credit to community-minded scientists costs nothing, but giving credit to psychopaths with the Kings ear can cost everyone their lives. There are always problems with a Meritocracy, as someone eventually has to define what has merit.

I am thankful to have goldfish crackers and jellybeans. Have a wonderful day =)

Re: Two physicists who correctly predicted the mass of Higgs boson [video]

#44

Post by hyperthesis »

shermantanktop wrote: post #40
Joel_Mckay wrote: post #10

“My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who do the work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was much less competition there.” (Indira Gandhi)

There are unfortunately a lot of hard workers who think credit magically appears when you are smart enough, valuable enough, etc., and that seeking appropriate credit is beneath their dignity. This attitude often nicely coincides with their complete lack of skill at sticking up for themselves. There is no shame in shining a bit of light on your own value. Just don’t make it blazing sun pointing at a small accomplishm…

Sometimes the inability to stick up for themselves is less due to lack of skill than lack of a sense of value in themselves apart from their achievements.

Re: Two physicists who correctly predicted the mass of Higgs boson [video]

#45

Post by AussieWog93 »

Joel_Mckay wrote: post #39
readthenotes1 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ghandi did not say half the people do the work and half the people take the credit, which is what it sounds like your disagreement is with. And of course, many binary segmentations work well for most cases and fail in unusual cases that can generally ignored.

You failed to understand the hilarious facets of Indira Gandhi's quote. I'd explain why your informal fallacy is off-topic, but am rather focused on goldfish crackers and jellybeans at the moment. Have a Gloriously wonderful day =)

Why on Earth would you go to such an effort to tell someone they're wrong without even bothering to share your own knowledge?

Re: Two physicists who correctly predicted the mass of Higgs boson [video]

#46

Post by threatofrain »

TOMDM wrote: post #18
kragen wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, but this means that if you divide people into those with controversial opinions, and those without, you should direct 100% of your listening to the first group. at some point you will have to be more selective than that, but that's clearly the first step

The cutting edge of progress is going to be found in controversy, but the "boring" established fact is often correct. Non controversial people are worth listening to as well.

There's also a question of who is best poised to extract value from professional or expert controversy. IMO generally not amateurs.

Re: Two physicists who correctly predicted the mass of Higgs boson [video]

#47

Post by n4r9 »

hyperthesis wrote: post #44
shermantanktop wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are unfortunately a lot of hard workers who think credit magically appears when you are smart enough, valuable enough, etc., and that seeking appropriate credit is beneath their dignity. This attitude often nicely coincides with their complete lack of skill at sticking up for themselves. There is no shame in shining a bit of light on your own value. Just don’t make it blazing sun pointing at a small accomplishm…

Sometimes the inability to stick up for themselves is less due to lack of skill than lack of a sense of value in themselves apart from their achievements.

Or a refusal to play the social credit game.

Re: Two physicists who correctly predicted the mass of Higgs boson [video]

#48

Post by kragen »

threatofrain wrote: post #46
TOMDM wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cutting edge of progress is going to be found in controversy, but the "boring" established fact is often correct. Non controversial people are worth listening to as well.

There's also a question of who is best poised to extract value from professional or expert controversy. IMO generally not amateurs.

clearly. ideally, in a field you don't know well, you would listen to only the uncontroversial opinions of people who also have controversial opinions, which you should ignore since you're not equipped to evaluate them

Re: Two physicists who correctly predicted the mass of Higgs boson [video]

#49

Post by Joel_Mckay »

babypuncher wrote: post #28
bmitc wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I actually disagree with Gandhi here. Lol. There are a lot of people that do the work. The numbers of those who take the credit are much less. However, there is usually a power imbalance that yields to their ability to do so. So it's not about numbers. It's about power.

For every Elon Musk there are hundreds or even thousands of engineers with actual degrees and experience relevant to the thing that was built.

"For every Elon Musk" Finally confirming he is a clone and or a robot...

Sure this is shocking news, but hardly surprising given the shift in behavior of late. =)

Re: Two physicists who correctly predicted the mass of Higgs boson [video]

#50

Post by Joel_Mckay »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #45
Joel_Mckay wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You failed to understand the hilarious facets of Indira Gandhi's quote. I'd explain why your informal fallacy is off-topic, but am rather focused on goldfish crackers and jellybeans at the moment. Have a Gloriously wonderful day =)

Why on Earth would you go to such an effort to tell someone they're wrong without even bothering to share your own knowledge?

Its funnier to people that get the ironic context, and I only answer questions from abusive people if paid.

Also, goldfish crackers... nom... nom... nom...

Have a great day, and no more hints. =P

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