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WPA3 Enterprise 192-bit mode at home

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Re: WPA3 Enterprise 192-bit mode at home

#42
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing that's going to be an issue for handoffs between APs. Think walking around a multi-story office on a Wi-Fi call. Now picture 30 APs and 100 people on wifi calls/VoIP etc. with DHCP recycling addresses, randomized MACs and so forth.

Is there any obstacle to having a centralized server these APs talk to, which manages authentication? I'm not seeing a hard obstacle, just another piece of network kit and it's cheaper to keep a clunky UX

you just described RADIUS

Re: WPA3 Enterprise 192-bit mode at home

#43
post #9

I want to know why WPA3 doesn't have a mode where a password is used for the initial connection , but then the client and AP generate a keypair and each store their half and use that for all future connections. For all future connections, the AP can validate every client, and the client can validate that it is connecting to the same AP. The AP could have an interface to 'revoke' access to any single client if necessa…

It's not unusual to run multiple APs on a single SSID. Your scheme doesn't work for that without coordination between the APs. Also, it means replacing an AP would require reconfiguring all the clients.

You don't need active coordination for this. APs serving the same SSID could verify client certificates issued from any other AP by verifying that the certificate is signed by a trusted certificate authority. You'd just need each AP to use the same CA to issue signatures from.

You could give each AP its own intermediate CA tracing back to the same root CA to avoid sharing private keys and allow easily revoking certificates signed by a compromised AP.

You would only need coordination for revoking client certificates (but you can't really avoid that regardless of model).

Re: WPA3 Enterprise 192-bit mode at home

#44
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing that's going to be an issue for handoffs between APs. Think walking around a multi-story office on a Wi-Fi call. Now picture 30 APs and 100 people on wifi calls/VoIP etc. with DHCP recycling addresses, randomized MACs and so forth.

Is there any obstacle to having a centralized server these APs talk to, which manages authentication? I'm not seeing a hard obstacle, just another piece of network kit and it's cheaper to keep a clunky UX

In theory I suppose. But you have to take into account that these APs can potentially be on different subnets, physical networks, talking across ipsec tunnels, dealing with multiple VLANs etc. There's just more overhead. It's easier to push out the info to the APs than to pull from who knows where.

Edit: For example: Say you have two buildings connected via an ipsec tunnel/static route. You have 4 wifi networks on 4 separate VLANs, 2 per building, guest and internal. Generally you'll have an internal wifi controller on an infra VLAN as well.

The wifi VLANs are not allowed to route to the infra VLAN, but infra can route to wifi. Rather than punching holes back allowing the the APs to talk to infra, you push out from infra to the APs.

Re: WPA3 Enterprise 192-bit mode at home

#45

EAP-TLS is generally a great practice, as EAP-PEAP is vulnerable to MITM issues (fix proposed in https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-josefsson-pppext-eap-t... but never adopted). For the use case cited -- blocking MAC spoofing, EAP-TLS doesn't quite solve it, it mainly only solves authentication. The outer layer is not wrapped with TLS and is instead based on an ephemeral session key. Additional work is needed to s…

If you're doing EAP-TLS wouldn't the ARP attack you're describing fail at the client when it's unable to verify the RADIUS server's certificate?

Re: WPA3 Enterprise 192-bit mode at home

#46
post #11

> Toggle the switch on the Smallstep RADIUS Root CA to enable Full Trust. The Smallstep RADIUS Root CA is now trusted. What could possibly go wrong? How do you do this without trusting some external CA?

The article borders on irresponsible by not explaining the full implications and risk of trusting a root CA, even if you're its sole private key custodian.

Re: WPA3 Enterprise 192-bit mode at home

#47

I want to know why WPA3 doesn't have a mode where a password is used for the initial connection , but then the client and AP generate a keypair and each store their half and use that for all future connections. For all future connections, the AP can validate every client, and the client can validate that it is connecting to the same AP. The AP could have an interface to 'revoke' access to any single client if necessa…

Saying that it is like WPA3 Enterprise after the initial pairing is somewhat unfair. The trust in the initial pairing is a large part of the draw. The trust on first use model you describe is similar to using a self signed certificate on a website. Sure, after you connect and trust the self signed certificate your connection to the server can use the same algorithms that it would have used with a trusted CA. But for large deployment there is something to be said for being able to trust that you are connecting to the right infrastructure.

Re: WPA3 Enterprise 192-bit mode at home

#48

A middle ground in complexity is WPA3 with a unique passphrase per VLAN, which allows grouping of devices by risk, or even giving each device a unique identity for access control and traffic management. OSS golang reference code is available, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38402289 VLAN tagging per SSID is a valid approach as well if a router supports it. Thats a lot stronger than how many routers implement the…

I wish more consumer devices supported multiple PSKs on the same SSID. It's a handy feature much better for airtime than creating multiple separate SSIDs and much better for sanity than 802.1x user or cert auth.

> I wish more consumer devices supported multiple PSKs on the same SSID

Could you name any enterprise APs that do this, short of running your own custom AP software? As far as I know (would love to be corrected on this), Unifi APs can't do this, and they're at the very least "prosumer".

Re: WPA3 Enterprise 192-bit mode at home

#49

EAP-TLS is generally a great practice, as EAP-PEAP is vulnerable to MITM issues (fix proposed in https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-josefsson-pppext-eap-t... but never adopted). For the use case cited -- blocking MAC spoofing, EAP-TLS doesn't quite solve it, it mainly only solves authentication. The outer layer is not wrapped with TLS and is instead based on an ephemeral session key. Additional work is needed to s…

> For the use case cited -- blocking MAC spoofing, EAP-TLS doesn't quite solve it

The idea would be to rely on the client certificate authentication and not use MAC filtering at all. For example, you could have an EAP-TLS network that's unrestricted and not let Mallory on it. Or you could use RADIUS reply attributes to put Mallory on a restricted vlan.

Re: WPA3 Enterprise 192-bit mode at home

#50

TS information over wifi? Ok. Have fun with that. Im sure it is legally possible somehow, but it just creates a ridiculously large attack surface. And the internal hassles, making sure connected machines are inside defined perimeters ... just run some wires. It isnt like people need to be reading classified stuff on the treadmill.

The title should be enterprise-grade Wi-Fi because the idea of closed-source, foreign-made COTS APs trafficking classified data is hyperbole only.
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