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Vermont Attorney General's dog sniffs out electronic storage devices

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Re: Vermont Attorney General's dog sniffs out electronic storage devices

#41

Post by ffgjgf1 »

miki123211 wrote: post #22
malwrar wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This technology protects everyone equally, and more importantly will exist regardless of whether or not you want it to. Any regulatory attempt to kill FDE will only result in the use of more deniable systems by criminals and the mass exploitation of everyone else who relies on the physical security of their computing devices. The tech isn’t magic. We must simply live with the consequences of the reality we exist in,…

The fact that the storage media that this dog can find contain anything but Veracrypt volumes proves that (most) criminals have terrible opsec. Most people who own CSAM are ordinary people, teachers, plumbers, truck drivers etc, not hackers, programmers and IT technicians. Child abuse is just like everything else, low-friction solutions are going to win over high-friction ones. If you have to get an Android phone and…

Requiring all residential buildings have at least a single camera in every room that’s active 24/7 and is streamed directly to NSA(or whoever) would also save a lot of victims of crimes.

You could have AI detecting instances of domestic abuse and immediately dispatching a police drone to handle it. Technologically this is almost already viable..

Re: Vermont Attorney General's dog sniffs out electronic storage devices

#42

Post by WirelessGigabit »

Hnrobert42 wrote: post #37
simplicio wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, the dog angle is legitimately interesting. I've never heard of police dogs being used to sniff out things other then drugs or people.

I went to RSA in San Francisco. At the time, I was staying with friends in San Mateo, but I got a hotel for a night in SF. Rates were outrageous, and we were a small startup. The cheapest hotel I could find was $400/ night for a bedroom with a shared bath down the hall. The next night, back at my friend’s house, I noticed the telltale 3 bite pattern on my shoulder. Breakfast lunch and dinner. It itched like CrAZy. It…

I live in Phoenix and this post just squashed my entrepreneurial desire to start a bed-bug eradication service.

How am I going to compete with 'oh just turn off your AC for a day in summer and you're good'.

Re: Vermont Attorney General's dog sniffs out electronic storage devices

#43

Post by ffgjgf1 »

vasco wrote: post #18
miki123211 wrote: post #14

> The workload has flooded,” Raymond told VTDigger. “And I think a lot of it is the availability of it online, obviously, but the other part is just, I think platforms are getting much better at controlling their own environment and finding and rooting that stuff out A lot of that stuff will be much harder to find out if end-to-end encryption stays legal. Is it still worth it? Very possibly, but it's definitely a tra…

You can justify anything with that line of thinking. To anyone paying attention I think it's obvious that AI image generators are going to end this problem. No need to hurt anyone and people can look at all the depraved things they want in the comfort of their homes.

But it’s no unreasonable to assume that demand for CSAM would mean that supply would increase to satisfy it.

Re: Vermont Attorney General's dog sniffs out electronic storage devices

#44

Post by madars »

robin_reala wrote: post #6
RockRobotRock wrote: post #3

>Mojo can quickly sniff out devices like hard drives, flash drives or SD cards — often leading officers straight to the evidence they need to make an arrest. Do nand flash chips and magnetic platters have a distinct smell? lol :) I'm not saying its impossible but really really outlandish

Nintendo uses bittrex in the plastic for their Switch cartridges to stop kids from swallowing them. Potentially this is more widespread in the SD card industry? (I don’t have any around me to test-lick unfortunately.)

For anyone else wondering: it's Bitrex (not Bittrex like the crypto exchange) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denatonium

Re: Vermont Attorney General's dog sniffs out electronic storage devices

#45

Post by ecshafer »

WirelessGigabit wrote: post #42
Hnrobert42 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to RSA in San Francisco. At the time, I was staying with friends in San Mateo, but I got a hotel for a night in SF. Rates were outrageous, and we were a small startup. The cheapest hotel I could find was $400/ night for a bedroom with a shared bath down the hall. The next night, back at my friend’s house, I noticed the telltale 3 bite pattern on my shoulder. Breakfast lunch and dinner. It itched like CrAZy. It…

I live in Phoenix and this post just squashed my entrepreneurial desire to start a bed-bug eradication service. How am I going to compete with 'oh just turn off your AC for a day in summer and you're good'.

You need to get 113F/45C to kill bed bugs and eggs within 90 minutes. 105F actually sounds too low. But its harder to kill eggs, which you need to get up to 118F. They are resillient and evil creatures.

Re: Vermont Attorney General's dog sniffs out electronic storage devices

#46

Post by 15155 »

IggleSniggle wrote: post #30
smt88 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drug-sniffing dogs are a myth[1]. They're used as a pretext for illegal searches, not to detect drugs. I suspect this is similar. "Detecting off-gassing" is vague enough to sound like it makes sense, but there's a variety of materials in electronic devices and many of the ones that off-gas (like plastic) are found in millions of other products. 1. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-03/fact-check-are-drug-d...

Your citation pretty clearly demonstrates that drug-sniffing dogs DO work. And anybody who has ever had a dog sniff something out would find this to be an obvious fact. The omitted figure is how large the sample size is. If the dog sniffs 100,000, and identifies 10 as having drug odor, but only 2 of the 10 are currently in the possession of drugs, that doesn't really indicate that the dog "has a failure rate of 75%"…

Drug dogs detect the high vapor pressure of the drugs themselves.

What exactly exists in an SD card that doesn't exist in basically every other silicon-based consumer electronic product?

Re: Vermont Attorney General's dog sniffs out electronic storage devices

#47

Post by 15155 »

eesmith wrote: post #11
RockRobotRock wrote: post #3

>Mojo can quickly sniff out devices like hard drives, flash drives or SD cards — often leading officers straight to the evidence they need to make an arrest. Do nand flash chips and magnetic platters have a distinct smell? lol :) I'm not saying its impossible but really really outlandish

Seems possible. The linked-to article in turn links to https://indianapublicmedia.org/news/indiana-man-training-k9-... dated January 27, 2017 describing how ""I had to pay a chemist to actually find the actual odor," Jordan says. "So it's an odor that's within the actual SD cards, the thumb drives, cell phones."" This is further detailed at https://www.techrepublic.com/article/electronics-sniffing-do... where "[Dr. J…

Sounds like one just needs to coat absolutely everything in their places, neighborhoods, businesses, etc. in TPPO and the like to change the noise floor.

Re: Vermont Attorney General's dog sniffs out electronic storage devices

#48

Post by eesmith »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #34
eesmith wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems possible. The linked-to article in turn links to https://indianapublicmedia.org/news/indiana-man-training-k9-... dated January 27, 2017 describing how ""I had to pay a chemist to actually find the actual odor," Jordan says. "So it's an odor that's within the actual SD cards, the thumb drives, cell phones."" This is further detailed at https://www.techrepublic.com/article/electronics-sniffing-do... where "[Dr. J…

Anyone who's worked in electronics manufacturing knows that printed circuit boards and soldered assemblies have a distinctive smell. The epoxy laminate boards get washed, but still have an odor, and we wash the flux residue off after soldering, but there are still odors that linger when acres of PCBs go across your manufacturing floor. I am a little surprised that a dog's nose is sensitive and rapid enough to find th…

So, get a bunch of e-scrap and scatter it around your place?

Or, bulk order microSD cards from Alibaba for under $1/piece? They don't need to actually work well.

Re: Vermont Attorney General's dog sniffs out electronic storage devices

#49

Post by eesmith »

15155 wrote: post #47
eesmith wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems possible. The linked-to article in turn links to https://indianapublicmedia.org/news/indiana-man-training-k9-... dated January 27, 2017 describing how ""I had to pay a chemist to actually find the actual odor," Jordan says. "So it's an odor that's within the actual SD cards, the thumb drives, cell phones."" This is further detailed at https://www.techrepublic.com/article/electronics-sniffing-do... where "[Dr. J…

Sounds like one just needs to coat absolutely everything in their places, neighborhoods, businesses, etc. in TPPO and the like to change the noise floor.

Looks like Sigma-Aldrich sells 100g of 98% pure triphenylphosphine oxide for about $100, see T84603 at http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/product/aldrich/t84603 .

Re: Vermont Attorney General's dog sniffs out electronic storage devices

#50

Post by cwillu »

15155 wrote: post #46
IggleSniggle wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your citation pretty clearly demonstrates that drug-sniffing dogs DO work. And anybody who has ever had a dog sniff something out would find this to be an obvious fact. The omitted figure is how large the sample size is. If the dog sniffs 100,000, and identifies 10 as having drug odor, but only 2 of the 10 are currently in the possession of drugs, that doesn't really indicate that the dog "has a failure rate of 75%"…

Drug dogs detect the high vapor pressure of the drugs themselves. What exactly exists in an SD card that doesn't exist in basically every other silicon-based consumer electronic product?

It's not that the off-gassing silicon is storage, it's that it's hidden.
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