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The Misty Programming Language

crockford.com

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Re: The Misty Programming Language

#41

Post by mminer237 »

082349872349872 wrote: post #8
Turing_Machine wrote: post #4

Willing to at least look at it, given that it's Crockford. On first glance, I like the patterns. It's long past time that regex got replaced with something that looks less like line noise from an old dialup modem.

I worked on a Java codebase a while ago that had identifiers which were longer than 80 characters. Perfectly fine in our era of huge display bandwidth, but once upon a time, those identifiers would not have fit on a full-width display without wrapping; at an even earlier time one would have waited a noticeable amount of time for them to print out on a TTY. (and an earlier HN thread suggested that even in our era, tho…

I just have a vertical monitor because it's much more practical for text-based work, but it means I can't fit more than about 75 characters a nline.

Re: The Misty Programming Language

#42

Post by vidarh »

JonChesterfield wrote: post #29
layer8 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you recommend any learning material on XSLT that is not focused on the transform-XML-to-HTML use case?

It turns out XSLT is a trivial programming model (pattern match on the tree) with crazy aesthetics and a near-useless stdlib, which shipped a MVP called 1.0 and then got basically abandoned for json. It's a bit of a disaster of history really. There are newer and saner specifications out there which I am totally ignoring. A bit too much of the world is written in java but you can get xsltproc which is a tiny C progra…

I see the appeal of that - I used to toy with a language whose default representation was XML (with two way translation from/to text as well as a diagram based editor), but XSL is way to verbose a syntax for me to interface with what is a very simple core you can build out as a library to write the same kind of tree rewrites.

Today I'd pick that option over actually using XSL anywhere - to me the only redeeming feature of XSL itself is/was the built-in support for applying XSL to XML in browsers (I worked on a web app ~2006 where XML was translated to HTML using XSL on the frontend, and you could turn off the server-side transformation and let the browser do it instead, which meant your source view was the underlying XML, which was very handy for debugging).

Re: The Misty Programming Language

#43

Post by xerox13ster »

norir wrote: post #37
gkbrk wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Copy-pasting Python code can easily end up in wrong indentation and broken code. Copy-pasting code in bracketed languages usually pastes and then auto-formats that section automatically.

Sure, but now you're perpetually stuck with the visual noise of unnecessary brackets _all_ the time. Maybe it's because I use vim, but I don't see this use case as terribly important because I can easily reindent with >> and << of a selection.

If you use vim and hate brackets that much, write a linter that will hide the brackets from working view and apply them according to how you white space.

Re: The Misty Programming Language

#44

Post by speed_spread »

082349872349872 wrote: post #8
Turing_Machine wrote: post #4

Willing to at least look at it, given that it's Crockford. On first glance, I like the patterns. It's long past time that regex got replaced with something that looks less like line noise from an old dialup modem.

I worked on a Java codebase a while ago that had identifiers which were longer than 80 characters. Perfectly fine in our era of huge display bandwidth, but once upon a time, those identifiers would not have fit on a full-width display without wrapping; at an even earlier time one would have waited a noticeable amount of time for them to print out on a TTY. (and an earlier HN thread suggested that even in our era, tho…

Doesn't Java have a 32 char limit for identifiers? Or it used to have that, maybe they should have kept it...

Re: The Misty Programming Language

#46

Post by mlinksva »

mlinksva wrote: post #34

Crockford's RacketCon 2023 talk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMDHpPN_p08 covers Misty (it's apparently specification-only so far) and is generally fun. Added: couple of previous submissions with a handful of comments https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38680087 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38114122

Also, similar thread from a month ago https://lobste.rs/s/r8vitn/misty_programing_language_from_cr...

Re: The Misty Programming Language

#47

Post by wormius »

Look forward to checking it out more, but I found the Turkish 'i' functions particularly interesting. Seems oddly specific - are there not other languages with similar situation? Why isn't this abstracted, I wonder, or why is it included at all? Seems "kitchen sink"-y. Maybe there's some explanation somewhere. Anyways, love Crockford, helped save a project with his JS deepcopy implementation (in addition to JSON and all the other work he's done with the programming community)

Re: The Misty Programming Language

#48

Post by jacknews »

"The language is quite strict in its use of spaces and indentation."

Not this again. Please stop.

Code structure should be explicitly denoted with brackets or whatever. Code formatting is cosmetic, can be applied automatically, and serves as a 'double-entry book-keeping' type check on the structure coded in characters - ie you can easily spot structure errors by pretty-printing.

Re: The Misty Programming Language

#50

Post by redbar0n »

redbar0n wrote: post #49

to see how the language (likely) looks like, try this input into perplexity.ai : show me the 3 simplest examples of rosettacode implemented in crockford's misty programming language

then you can go further, ask perplexity.ai to:

use the documentation at https://www.crockford.com/misty/actors.html to show an actor code example

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