Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Reckless DMCA Deindexing Pushes NASA's Artemis Towards Black Hole

torrentfreak.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 54 posts

Re: Reckless DMCA Deindexing Pushes NASA's Artemis Towards Black Hole

#41

Post by 93po »

akira2501 wrote: post #19
ljm wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s almost as if US legal systems actively facilitate cultural appropriation, particularly with DMCA generally being applied by brute force. Using US copyright law to protect an influencer’s appropriation of a 3000 year old name to market their narcissism is exactly a case of that. Not as if it’s a unique name either. Artëm is common for men in Russia and Ukraine.

It facilitates the violation of human rights. It created a system that does more to harm speech than it does to protect it's proliferation. The large corporations who profit the most from this "law" are the least in need of it's protections and it's bizarre that they're entitled to raise the specter of FBI investigated criminal penalties for what should be a civil matter. The cultural appropriation, to the extent tha…

This but for all of intellectual property. Outlawing humans doing whatever they want with ideas sounds like some Orwellian nightmare

Re: Reckless DMCA Deindexing Pushes NASA's Artemis Towards Black Hole

#42

Post by cultureswitch »

bawolff wrote: post #34
giantrobot wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's rich that someone on Instagram picked the name of a Greek goddess and is able, through the insanity of the DMCA, squat on that name.

DMCA isn't the thing allowing this, its big companies taking dmca notices at face value and just acting on them without caring.

The DMCA forces them to act this way.

Re: Reckless DMCA Deindexing Pushes NASA's Artemis Towards Black Hole

#43

Post by cultureswitch »

jevoten wrote: post #40
ljm wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s almost as if US legal systems actively facilitate cultural appropriation, particularly with DMCA generally being applied by brute force. Using US copyright law to protect an influencer’s appropriation of a 3000 year old name to market their narcissism is exactly a case of that. Not as if it’s a unique name either. Artëm is common for men in Russia and Ukraine.

> an influencer’s appropriation of a 3000 year old name Most of the results for "artemis onlyfans/instagram" are Caucasian. Meaning it is overwhelmingly likely that the model in question is a descendant, at least in part, of literal Artemis worshiping pagans, and is thus not committing any appropriation.

Hans get the skull measurer

Re: Reckless DMCA Deindexing Pushes NASA's Artemis Towards Black Hole

#44

Post by cultureswitch »

neilv wrote: post #11

Web site that profits from widespread copyright violation-- decries the flawed legal mechanisms that widespread copyright violation enabled. DMCA has serious problems in practice, and needs correcting. But the piracy community should not be the ones criticizing every time a merchant ship has a gunpowder accident from the cannons they're required to carry because of the pirates .

We would be better off without copyright enforcement at all than whatever we have now.

Re: Reckless DMCA Deindexing Pushes NASA's Artemis Towards Black Hole

#45

Post by cultureswitch »

hakfoo wrote: post #32
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We need a good balance between pirates and merchants. I disagree. We need sensible copyright terms of certainly no more than the patent terms (20 years) and probably a default of half-that. We need to remove closed distribution if we want market forces to act -- by which I mean all distribution services can offer a work (maybe after 1 or 2 years of exclusive use) provided they pay the copyright holder the fee set. N…

I think we can go further. Copyright is a terrible hack. Creative works are not scarce, but they're subject to front-loaded costs. (Write the game/book/song once, and then every subsequent copy is essentially free). Copyright said "let's force everyone to pretend this non-scarce item is scarce, so we have a way charge a non-zero price and recoup costs." It allowed us to continue to use market-economics tools, because…

Disconnecting the economic rent from the value of a piece of cultural to each individual is a horrid idea.

Culture, like everything else, is subject to the pareto principle. A handful of works are so much better than the rest that they capture almost all of the money that the public is willing to part with. This is true regardless of economic system.

Re: Reckless DMCA Deindexing Pushes NASA's Artemis Towards Black Hole

#46

Post by safety1st »

ZoomerCretin wrote: post #9
mcpackieh wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need to have severe penalties for negligent DMCA takedowns, not just willfully malicious ones. Including disbarment and possibly imprisonment for any lawyers involved. Taking down pages about NASA rocketry because they shared a name with a social media model was probably an accident, but it's an inexcusable accident that never should have happened. These kind of accidents wouldn't happen so often if the people iss…

This is a very nice-sounding fantasy. Too many people profit from the status quo to do such a thing. Lawyers and judges would not dare issue a ruling or enact any law harming their and their friends' profession.

I mean the lawyers behind Prenda Law were disbarred and sent to jail for their outrageous copyright trolling in large part because they abused the justice system. Judges don't like it when you do that. They can and do bust lawyers and law firms all the time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prenda_Law

I think the main issue here is, if you're a victim of DMCA fraud it's hard to get a case in front of a judge because of the way the law is written. But that doesn't mean it will never happen, and if it does I absolutely feel like a judge might set a precedent which curtails the practice, because judges by nature tend to take a dim view of abuse of process.

Re: Reckless DMCA Deindexing Pushes NASA's Artemis Towards Black Hole

#47

Post by voakbasda »

93po wrote: post #41
akira2501 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It facilitates the violation of human rights. It created a system that does more to harm speech than it does to protect it's proliferation. The large corporations who profit the most from this "law" are the least in need of it's protections and it's bizarre that they're entitled to raise the specter of FBI investigated criminal penalties for what should be a civil matter. The cultural appropriation, to the extent tha…

This but for all of intellectual property. Outlawing humans doing whatever they want with ideas sounds like some Orwellian nightmare

Thats exactly the world we live in.

Re: Reckless DMCA Deindexing Pushes NASA's Artemis Towards Black Hole

#48

Post by voakbasda »

rockskon wrote: post #33
ZoomerCretin wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very nice-sounding fantasy. Too many people profit from the status quo to do such a thing. Lawyers and judges would not dare issue a ruling or enact any law harming their and their friends' profession.

Cynicism like this is poison for changing the political system. Not only have you ceded all ground to the copyright industry - you also discourage others from trying to make a difference. The public isn't as powerless to enact change as you make them out to be.

Yes the public is powerless. Nothing short of revolution will change the status quo. Until then, not a god damn thing will ever make a meaningful change away from the direction things are heading. The people have lost control of the government.

Re: Reckless DMCA Deindexing Pushes NASA's Artemis Towards Black Hole

#49

Post by 93po »

voakbasda wrote: post #47
93po wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This but for all of intellectual property. Outlawing humans doing whatever they want with ideas sounds like some Orwellian nightmare

Thats exactly the world we live in.

I'm painfully aware

Re: Reckless DMCA Deindexing Pushes NASA's Artemis Towards Black Hole

#50

Post by hakfoo »

cultureswitch wrote: post #45
hakfoo wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we can go further. Copyright is a terrible hack. Creative works are not scarce, but they're subject to front-loaded costs. (Write the game/book/song once, and then every subsequent copy is essentially free). Copyright said "let's force everyone to pretend this non-scarce item is scarce, so we have a way charge a non-zero price and recoup costs." It allowed us to continue to use market-economics tools, because…

Disconnecting the economic rent from the value of a piece of cultural to each individual is a horrid idea. Culture, like everything else, is subject to the pareto principle. A handful of works are so much better than the rest that they capture almost all of the money that the public is willing to part with. This is true regardless of economic system.

I question the ability of the market to measure quality. Note I'm not talking about 'commercially successful', but enduring, historic/academic quality. Even though they made bazillions, will students in the high schools of 2523 be reading through scripts of Friends and Breaking Bad the way we slogged through King Lear and Othello?

What makes it to market is already a constrained selection. It has to make it through a bunch of commercial filters (investors and publishers who'd rather do a predictably bankable franchise product over a new whole-cloth one), and then you have the issue of only hearing from those who are financially and physically stable enough to create cultural works in the first place. How many potential writers can't start their novel because they're working three jobs, or hiding for their lives in Gaza?

Copyright itself also produces a huge filter by discouraging iterative creativity. It silences people whose talent is building on or expanding existing work. See the guy who is being ordered by the courts to destroy his LOTR derivative product. Perhaps there's a chance to make better Tolkein than Tolkein himself, but we won't know for another 50 years or so.

I'd rather we tell artists "go crazy, you're guaranteed 70k per year, whether you make the next Iron Man, or something so avant-garde only six people actually get it, and four of them are just claiming they do to fit in." We'll at least get more diverse products, and let history decide what's meritorious.

Post reply on HN