Live data from Hacker News

1 in 2 new college graduates are jobless or underemployed

finance.yahoo.com

41–50 of 68 posts

Re: 1 in 2 new college graduates are jobless or underemployed

#41
post #14
post #9

I'm not sure why college students aren't told that a degree in anthropology/english/women's studies is not going to give you marketable skills, while a degree in nursing/engineering/computer science will. Perhaps incoming freshmen should be given better guidance?

"Do what interests you" is very common and very bad advice. I studied social anthropology for a semester because it "interested" me — but only in theory, not in practice. The computer science degree I eventually received has yielded a far more interesting career than what my friends in psychology/philosophy/sociology have experienced, on average.

Did studying social anthropology for a semester hurt you in any way? And when you figured out you weren't really interested in it, how did you decide to pursue CS if it didn't interest you?

Re: 1 in 2 new college graduates are jobless or underemployed

#42
post #9

I'm not sure why college students aren't told that a degree in anthropology/english/women's studies is not going to give you marketable skills, while a degree in nursing/engineering/computer science will. Perhaps incoming freshmen should be given better guidance?

Look at all the 'follow your passion' articles that appear on HN.

Young folks also take bigger risks, like doing music or art in the hope that they can make it. Add in an education system that rarely considers humility a value and realistic assessment of your skills and that's why people don't have marketable skills.

Mind you, there are places like the School of Music near me where for every incoming class they tell them that they won't get a job and most of them will not make it. It's really honest, but on wildly optimistic 18 year olds it doesn't have much impact.

Re: 1 in 2 new college graduates are jobless or underemployed

#43
post #13

This is interesting to me. I'm 20 years old and I'm not in college nor do I plan to finish a degree (and if it wasn't for technology greats like Peter Thiel and PG advice, I might still be making a $100,000 mistake). I'm a fairly normal guy, I've been out of high school for 3 years now and I'm making slightly less than Bureau of Labor Statistic's 2010 Median Income for 'Software Developers', which I believe is more t…

> I see a lot of psychic pain in my peers about how hard work is or the labor market is so difficult, but to be frank the failures I see are directly attributable to plain laziness in a generation addicted to easy and inane pleasure.

You probably live in a bubble then. Yes, we all know these people, but they are the minority of those affected by the current economy. Unemployment is vastly higher in groups without college (or high school) degrees, meanwhile in many places there was barely a recession in the tech sector, and if there was, it was over very quickly.

I feel like every HN thread about a successful startup, or a reminder of the excellent salaries we get for doing things that we love, should include someone behind us, whispering in our ear that the majority of bankruptcies are from people with unexpected medical problems, 75% of whom had insurance, and that last year 20% of children in the US grew up in households making less than $22,000 for a family of four.

Re: 1 in 2 new college graduates are jobless or underemployed

#44
post #9

I'm not sure why college students aren't told that a degree in anthropology/english/women's studies is not going to give you marketable skills, while a degree in nursing/engineering/computer science will. Perhaps incoming freshmen should be given better guidance?

I personally reject the notion that a degree in Anthropology, English or some other nonmarketable major is a bad idea. Doing something that makes a significant impact in any given field, especially considering the sizable advantages of web distribution, is easier now than ever.

If you feel the deep passion and need for bringing your ideas into the world, you will be successful.

The issue is motivation, you're either working towards doing great work or you aren't.

Most people aren't.

Re: 1 in 2 new college graduates are jobless or underemployed

#45
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Do what interests you" is very common and very bad advice. I studied social anthropology for a semester because it "interested" me — but only in theory, not in practice. The computer science degree I eventually received has yielded a far more interesting career than what my friends in psychology/philosophy/sociology have experienced, on average.

Is it really bad advice? I can't think of a single good software developer I know who chose the field simply out of pragmatics. Any time I've met someone in a field because they felt it was necessary they typically hate what they do are are likewise not very good at it (with some exceptions). It's incredibly myopic for a people who are passionate about something that also happens be a reasonably well paying professio…

"Any time I've met someone in a field because they felt it was necessary they typically hate what they do are are likewise not very good at it (with some exceptions)."

Do they like it more than they'd like waiting tables or serving coffee?

"It's incredibly myopic for a people who are passionate about something that also happens be a reasonably well paying profession to tell other people that they shouldn't follow their interests."

I don't think anybody is telling them not to follow their interests. But if they're going to do that they should realize and accept that doing what they love may not pay well.

Re: 1 in 2 new college graduates are jobless or underemployed

#46
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Do what interests you" is very common and very bad advice. I studied social anthropology for a semester because it "interested" me — but only in theory, not in practice. The computer science degree I eventually received has yielded a far more interesting career than what my friends in psychology/philosophy/sociology have experienced, on average.

Did studying social anthropology for a semester hurt you in any way? And when you figured out you weren't really interested in it, how did you decide to pursue CS if it didn't interest you?

a) No, in fact, I benefitted from the semester. I learned interesting things about, for example, the role of gift giving in society and what it means to be a social anthropologist. I don't regret the semester, but I do think I would have regretted a degree.

b) I never said CS didn't interest me — that "study what interests you" is bad advice doesn't mean to do the opposite. See my reply above for more explanation and a short description of my thought process.

Re: 1 in 2 new college graduates are jobless or underemployed

#48
post #13

This is interesting to me. I'm 20 years old and I'm not in college nor do I plan to finish a degree (and if it wasn't for technology greats like Peter Thiel and PG advice, I might still be making a $100,000 mistake). I'm a fairly normal guy, I've been out of high school for 3 years now and I'm making slightly less than Bureau of Labor Statistic's 2010 Median Income for 'Software Developers', which I believe is more t…

> I see a lot of psychic pain in my peers about how hard work is or the labor market is so difficult, but to be frank the failures I see are directly attributable to plain laziness in a generation addicted to easy and inane pleasure. You probably live in a bubble then. Yes, we all know these people, but they are the minority of those affected by the current economy. Unemployment is vastly higher in groups without col…

This is overly personal and about to be a little Horatio Alger, but it's a relevant anecdote to the bubble comment so I'll throw it out there -- I personally don't come from a household making more than 25,000 a year, I lived in the esteemed estate of 'Mountain View Trailer Park' just a few years ago and have always attended public school, My stepfather was a construction worker and my mother taught ESL.

My insistence on refusing to believe that you are the result of forces beyond your control perhaps comes directly from this experience. Plenty of people told me that escaping my class was impossible because of the various capitalist systems of control, yet here I am today, hobnobbing with high HN society (kidding).

I'll accept that our medical system imposes undue stress upon those within it, but equally so, it's tough to not concede that many medical problems are ultimately self-induced through poor diet and exercise habits spanning over many years.

I'll reiterate -- your life is yours to create.

Re: 1 in 2 new college graduates are jobless or underemployed

#49
post #44
post #9

I'm not sure why college students aren't told that a degree in anthropology/english/women's studies is not going to give you marketable skills, while a degree in nursing/engineering/computer science will. Perhaps incoming freshmen should be given better guidance?

I personally reject the notion that a degree in Anthropology, English or some other nonmarketable major is a bad idea. Doing something that makes a significant impact in any given field, especially considering the sizable advantages of web distribution, is easier now than ever. If you feel the deep passion and need for bringing your ideas into the world, you will be successful. The issue is motivation, you're either…

There's nothing that guarantees success for the passionate.

If you are passionate about being a screenplay writer, your talent will be drowned out in the deluge of other passionate and hardworking people also trying to be screenplay writers. For the vast majority of people, that kind of pursuit is better left as a hobby.

I think you (and I, and most of us here in HN) should count ourselves lucky that we happen to be passionate about programming. It's a tool that allows us to bring out ideas to life - anything from games to Mars rovers to businesses. People passionate about 19th century Russian literature don't have the luxury that we do because that's not going to earn them a living, no matter how great their passion may be.

This "they should pull themselves up by their bootstraps" notion is a little misguided, IMO. Instead, I'd say the screenplay writer should see if she can get herself to be at least passably comfortable in a marketable field, while leaving the writing for the weekends.

Re: 1 in 2 new college graduates are jobless or underemployed

#50
"Learn to program" is probably going to be a repeated answer here but I'm not so sure this attitude is going to be doing any good. Enticing people into technical professions that do not have the inclination is not going to make things much better - instead your going to end up with a significant band of people disinterested in their work. We all know how much "negative" work can be done by bad apples in software.

The problem is that everyone has natural competencies, personalities and cognitive methods and only a relatively small sliver have the type that will fit software development. If you think I'm saying were special, I am not. Every discipline has a relatively small sliver of people who will be naturally inclined to do it and enjoy it.

The real problem is us... meaning society. We currently aren't culturally organized in a manner to take advantage of everyone's abilities and part of the main reasoning I'd say is a lack of diversity in terms of what is appreciated and rewarded. From my limited perspective our culture seems to have a maniacal focus on money and a growing monoculture that is focused on how to become a millionaire at whatever cost. Right now software development seems to be a good way to get rich partly due to our monoculture's love of video games, apps, business processes etc. so our industry gets green lit for now so to say.

The problem is that there is a lot of important stuff to us humans all living a better life that the majority falsely considers unimportant and lowly for the most part because of its current low correlation to the almighty profit ... things like culture, art, anthropology, farming, geology, architecture, care-taking, etc etc The sad thing is that we have swaths of people with great skills and inclinations that should be going into these different segments but essentially can't because we collectively don't appreciate people doing these things.

In other words if you ask me our real jobs problem is that we don't have diverse enough "consumers" who appreciate the interesting niches different humans fill.

Post reply on HN