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Why Prusa is floundering, and how you can avoid their fate

drewdevault.com

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Re: Why Prusa is floundering, and how you can avoid their fate

#41

Post by drewdevault »

Palomides wrote: post #28
drewdevault wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It need not be predatory, nor need it be mandatory for users to take advantage of these features, nor need it be proprietary or non-free.

I agree, but I think the incentives tend to push towards user hostile results. It's a small jump for the business mind to go from free cloud optional to free cloud only to paid features cloud to subscription only cloud, or selling plastic to only supporting their own plastic, and so on. Web services are so cheap and profitable that it feels like every business converges towards them now. I'd really rather buy from a…

Mainly I think that this temptation is circumvented with strong leadership and weak investors. That big VC money is a poison, but if you don't take it then you can focus on the product without so much of the risk.

Re: Why Prusa is floundering, and how you can avoid their fate

#42

Post by chme »

A lot comes down to how people measure success.

In a capitalist system, success is often measured as having the most bucks, be it deserved or undeserved, how they got them, or how many people were ripped off on the way doesn't matter.

Measuring the success of open-source projects is more about how they managed to impact the world positively. How they make tasks easier, bring happiness, inspire people, build community, give people more control over their lives, or even save lives, etc. Therefore open source products don't need to compete with closed-source projects, because they have a different measurement of success.

If an open-source engineer figures out a way that pays your bills, then this is even better, but not necessarily required for someone to be a successful open-source hard- or software engineer. It is a failure of the capitalistic system and broadly society if those engineers are not given the chance to continue their good work.

And this is were I disagree, advocating for being more competitive, and giving up your morale rules one by one is "race to the bottom" behavior. This is why there are 1 dollar stores and tons of low quality crab for sale.

Re: Why Prusa is floundering, and how you can avoid their fate

#43

Post by mardifoufs »

skybrian wrote: post #21

I suspect this article isn't accurate about Prusa. It's not clear that they're "floundering" (versus worried). They do have other products (resin printers, supplies like filament). There is a PrusaConnect cloud service and they recently launched a Printables website for sharing models. And probably other stuff I missed.

Their resin printers are completely uncompetitive. Their latest model dates from 2018 iirc.

Re: Why Prusa is floundering, and how you can avoid their fate

#44

Post by riddley »

drewdevault wrote: post #37
MarkusQ wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then what's the point? It would take effort to develop these "features", the only benefit of which would be predatory. For example: > Bambu’s cloud slicer is a massive lost opportunity for Prusa. Bambu's cloud slicer is a complicated SaaS undertaking that incurs hosting and storage costs, yet doesn't (so far as I know) generate any revenue for Bambu Labs. So why do it, unless you want to make sure that a copy of what…

Businesses are more complex than just one facet. Not everything the business offers has to be a direct revenue driver; it builds trust with the brand and improves the experience by putting everything you need with respect to your printer in the same spot. Which of the following experiences delivers better value to the customer: 1. They buy a printer and can immediately slice and print stuff on the vendor's web app 2.…

Again I have to ask if you've ever used a Prusa, no really this time?

Prusa users use Prusaslicer, not Cura. Printables.com often hosts gcode files that require no slicing at all by end users. These points completely aside -- do you think 3d printer novices are going to last long without learning a slicer? Is that really your assertion?

Also, is installing Cura a "nightmare" ? So much explosive language!

Re: Why Prusa is floundering, and how you can avoid their fate

#45

Post by drewdevault »

pierat wrote: post #31

Basically, the whole argument is "If Prusa had created a closed source moat to trap customers....", and that view is an anathema to open source where Josef came from. The current line of printers are this bastardized mixture of DRM and open source: There's a piece of the PCB you have to break to "allow" loading unsigned firmware. And breaking the PCB like that makes it non-returnable. That crap's lost a lot of open s…

[flagged]

Re: Why Prusa is floundering, and how you can avoid their fate

#46

Post by cmsj »

I have a lot of respect for Armin, but it's pretty clear he doesn't really understand the specifics of what he's talking about here.

> people are complaining (The MK4 firmware is not Open Source)

the link here is to a reddit post (https://www.reddit.com/r/prusa3d/comments/10g6fgv/prusa_givi...) in which the complaint is not only not about the MK4's firmware, it's also not even about something not being open source.

Specifically, that complaint is that PrusaSlicer (the software which turns a 3D model file into GCode instructions for the printer to follow - think PostScript, but for a 3D printer) is not developed as an open project. PrusaSlicer is open source, but most of the development happens internally at Prusa. It's a legitimate complaint, but not at all the complaint Armin claims it to be.

For the record, the Mk4 firmware is also open source, it lives here: https://github.com/prusa3d/Prusa-Firmware-Buddy

Re: Why Prusa is floundering, and how you can avoid their fate

#47

Post by kiba »

drewdevault wrote: post #41
Palomides wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, but I think the incentives tend to push towards user hostile results. It's a small jump for the business mind to go from free cloud optional to free cloud only to paid features cloud to subscription only cloud, or selling plastic to only supporting their own plastic, and so on. Web services are so cheap and profitable that it feels like every business converges towards them now. I'd really rather buy from a…

Mainly I think that this temptation is circumvented with strong leadership and weak investors. That big VC money is a poison, but if you don't take it then you can focus on the product without so much of the risk.

AGPL cloud service would circumvent this issue rather than relying purely on strong leadership and company DNA.

Re: Why Prusa is floundering, and how you can avoid their fate

#48

Post by MegaDeKay »

lawn wrote: post #25

> They have been struggling as of late, and came under criticism for making the firmware of their Mk4 printer non-free. One of the biggest reasons I didn't choose a Mk4 was precisely because they moved away from open source. If you're like me an values open source highly and is looking for a printer, the VORON printers are the way to go. They're DIY printers where you assemble them yourself, so they're not for you if…

I have a half assembled Trident on a table behind me right now. Like you, I greatly value open source. I didn't realize at the time I ordered the Trident that the Mk4 firmware was non-free, but Prusa didn't make the final cut regardless. In my mind, Prusa hasn't been showing enough innovation. The bed-slinging Mk4 coming out at the price it did against CoreXY printers like Voron and Bambu was like bringing a knife to a gunfight. Their new extruder is nice but not enough.

I've been really impressed by the Voron community as well. I've found them very helpful and supportive, and the creativity here is amazing. The long list of mods is also impressive: some are incredibly useful and some are more fun than anything else. I understand that a lot of people just want a box to show up at their door that they can plug in and start printing with. Those folks should buy a Bambu. For everyone else, there's Voron.

Re: Why Prusa is floundering, and how you can avoid their fate

#49

Post by LegitShady »

drewdevault wrote: post #13
Palomides wrote: post #6

>Imagine a Prusa where it works out of the box, you can fire up a slicer in your browser which auto-connects to your printer and prints models from a Prusa-operated model repository, paying $10 for a premium model, $1 off the top goes to Prusa, with the same saved payment details which ensure that a fresh spool of Prusa filament arrives at your front door when it auto-detects that your printer is almost out. The prin…

It need not be predatory, nor need it be mandatory for users to take advantage of these features, nor need it be proprietary or non-free.

It need not be, but once these features are developed they almost certainly become mandatory, proprietary, and predatory.
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