The rise of the forever renters • Hacker News Board

Re: The rise of the forever renters

#41

Post by linguae » Sat, Dec 23, 2023, 9:15 PM UTC

xboxnolifes wrote: post #35

inamberclad wrote: post #8

The problem with renting is that it's so expensive that it's hard to stop renting. How, in this market, do you save enough to buy when you can't afford to pay less rent? Most people are being squeezed between a rock and a hard place.

Unfortunately, the answer is roommates.

Thus, the squeeze, sometimes literally. When costs rise faster than incomes, people are forced to accept a lower quality of life, such as longer commutes and living with roommates, both of which can be stressful.

I understand that this is just the way things are right now, but we need more housing so that way fewer people have to resort to these measures.

Re: The rise of the forever renters

#42

Post by jk20 » Sat, Dec 23, 2023, 9:21 PM UTC

epistasis wrote: post #19

blindriver wrote: post #16

This is exactly what they turn us into: subscribers. They want us to keep paying them month after month, year after year a portion of our earnings forever. It’s the exact definition of indentured servant. It’s insidious and evil.

What do you think homeownership entails? No maintenance, carefree profits from ever increasing land rents only? No property taxes? Who is "they" here, beyond the typical business person?

[dead]

Re: The rise of the forever renters

#43

Post by wnc3141 » Sat, Dec 23, 2023, 9:23 PM UTC

RecycledEle wrote: post #28

If you want to increase home ownership, you either need to change renters priorities, or pay them more, or make buying a house more affordable.

I think this all boils down to steering all economic policy toward increasing the labor share of income.

Re: The rise of the forever renters

#44

Post by fragmede » Sat, Dec 23, 2023, 9:23 PM UTC

linguae wrote: post #38

inamberclad wrote: post #8

The problem with renting is that it's so expensive that it's hard to stop renting. How, in this market, do you save enough to buy when you can't afford to pay less rent? Most people are being squeezed between a rock and a hard place.

To make matters worse, renting often means dealing with annual rental increases. Since the pandemic started my apartment rent has gone up roughly 8% per year, compared to the annual 2-3% raises I get for good performance at work. Some people have to contend with much more dramatic rent increases. Many people end up getting priced out of renting due to rent increases, forcing them to either move further away (which me…

California's AB 1482 gets renters some relief, though it may not apply in your case. It limits rent increases to 5% + CPI, or 10%, whichever is lower.

If you just happened to have a spare $200k lying around to make a 20% down payment on a million dollar condo in the Bay Area in the low interest rate era, you'd be paying the same as a renter, but fixed, and with equity.

Re: The rise of the forever renters

#45

Post by terminous » Sat, Dec 23, 2023, 9:24 PM UTC

skadamat wrote: post #3

Renting is underrated, especially in the US I feel where people are constantly encouraged to buy a house. https://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/renting-is-not-a-waste...

Except that almost every landlord I've ever had has treated me like second-class citizen or a child, constantly invaded my privacy, and skimped on all the costs that you're supposed to be saving. No guests at any time. No candles. Inspections for "safety" every 1-2 weeks, often with no notice because of a contrived emergency. Wouldn't fix the freezer part of the refrigerator because the lease only said it has a refrigerator, not a fridge+freezer. Going off on long political and cultural rants against my generation and political party every time we interact. Cameras pointed at my front door 24/7, with detailed tracking of my overnight guests (for a lease that would only allow 2 weeks of overnight guests a year).

If you don't own your home, you don't own your life.

Re: The rise of the forever renters

#46

Post by jk20 » Sat, Dec 23, 2023, 9:24 PM UTC

plastic-enjoyer wrote: post #34

epistasis wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think homeownership entails? No maintenance, carefree profits from ever increasing land rents only? No property taxes? Who is "they" here, beyond the typical business person?

Apart from that, few people can afford a house without a loan from the bank. As long as you have to pay back this loan, the house doesn't belong to you, but to the bank. Where I come from, this loan is so high that you need 20 - 30 years to pay it back. If you become unemployed, you're pretty much fucked.

[dead]

Re: The rise of the forever renters

#47

Post by daveguy » Sat, Dec 23, 2023, 9:26 PM UTC

whateveracct wrote: post #9

skadamat wrote: post #3

Renting is underrated, especially in the US I feel where people are constantly encouraged to buy a house. https://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/renting-is-not-a-waste...

Maybe in the market this very moment it's tougher to buy, but I bought in 2020 and my mortgage + other expenses pretty much match what I was paying in an expensive city (Seattle). I didn't buy in Seattle but it's an easy drive away. And my house is 3k sqft vs the 800 I had in the city. And that space is put to work: Proper office, guestroom, gym room, much larger and nicer kitchen (which in turn saves me even more mo…

It must be nice to get a mortgage at ~3.1% or less.

Do you realize that you would be paying over 50% more per month for that same mortgage today?

Would you still consider that a super good deal that you can't imagine anyone not taking?

Rate lock-in isn't that great with a high interest rate, because you are going to need to pay thousands to refinance.

I get where you're coming from, but it's a different analysis today than it was 3 years ago.

Re: The rise of the forever renters

#48

Post by dragonelite » Sat, Dec 23, 2023, 9:26 PM UTC

linguae wrote: post #38

inamberclad wrote: post #8

The problem with renting is that it's so expensive that it's hard to stop renting. How, in this market, do you save enough to buy when you can't afford to pay less rent? Most people are being squeezed between a rock and a hard place.

To make matters worse, renting often means dealing with annual rental increases. Since the pandemic started my apartment rent has gone up roughly 8% per year, compared to the annual 2-3% raises I get for good performance at work. Some people have to contend with much more dramatic rent increases. Many people end up getting priced out of renting due to rent increases, forcing them to either move further away (which me…

Pretty much my situation in the Netherlands, my overal costs rise like 6~8% and my pay raises like 2~4%. Im pretty much forced to job hop every 2~3 year to make up and keep up with rising costs of living.

That is with me owning my own house i also have a sibling that will most likely end up being a forever renter. His rent has increased so much the past 6~7 years. That he now pays way more in rent then i do for my mortgage like almost €150~200 more in a shittier neighbourhood in the same city.

Re: The rise of the forever renters

#49

Post by daveguy » Sat, Dec 23, 2023, 9:29 PM UTC

terminous wrote: post #45

skadamat wrote: post #3

Renting is underrated, especially in the US I feel where people are constantly encouraged to buy a house. https://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/renting-is-not-a-waste...

Except that almost every landlord I've ever had has treated me like second-class citizen or a child, constantly invaded my privacy, and skimped on all the costs that you're supposed to be saving. No guests at any time. No candles. Inspections for "safety" every 1-2 weeks, often with no notice because of a contrived emergency. Wouldn't fix the freezer part of the refrigerator because the lease only said it has a refri…

You have had some weird ass f'd up landlords. I had 5 before buying and none were remotely that shitty.

Sounds like a civil suit for invasion of privacy to me (at least in the US). And if I just got lucky, then stronger renters laws are needed.

Re: The rise of the forever renters

#50

Post by kazinator » Sat, Dec 23, 2023, 9:29 PM UTC

ebiester wrote: post #21

Alternatively, the kind of real estate that these "forever renters" would like to buy are either not built or not available at the prices that they can afford. I wasn't able to buy in San Francisco or Boston without a two hour commute, but renting was achievable. Now that I live in a middle cost-of-living area making a remote salary, I was able to buy at a reasonable price relative to renting. On top of that, the lab…

Due to immigration, the demand is practically inexhaustible. You cannot build fast enough to fix the problem.