US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances • Hacker News Board

Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#41

Post by vsskanth » Thu, Dec 21, 2023, 6:39 PM UTC

kaibee wrote: post #30

vsskanth wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about your specific circumstances but for Indian cooking, gas is just miles ahead. We have electric at home, It just takes forever to cook anything and it's hard to control the heat. Our friends with gas cooktops get done in half the time.

This might be a problem with your range. I bought a house recently with a new flipper-grade electric range and the first time I used the large burner on it, the amount of heat it put out completely eclipsed what the range in my previous apartment did. The only difference is that the new one has a glass top. On the high setting I can't even bring my hand within 6 inches of the burner once its up to temperature.

Heat isn't an issue. It's the lag. Feels like forever when you want to cook in high heat and ramp down.

Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#42

Post by bradfa » Thu, Dec 21, 2023, 6:40 PM UTC

buggeryorkshire wrote: post #27

Schiendelman wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you may not have used induction.

Yeah, when I replaced my crap electric hob with induction I literally sent a video to my mum boiling a pan of water to show how crazy fast it was. I'm in the UK though, maybe it's something to do with having 230v supply?

In North America residential electric is 240V across both hot lines or 120V hot to neutral. Most normal power outlets in homes are 120V but any large electric appliance like a stove or clothes dryer will use 240V.

So built-in stoves or cooktops will take 240V but a portable single burner induction cooktop would likely only use 120V.

Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#43

Post by singron » Thu, Dec 21, 2023, 6:40 PM UTC

simonsarris wrote: post #25

bob1029 wrote: post #3

I just moved from a home with induction range to one with gas range and I feel like I am on crazy pills waiting for anything to happen now. I get that things like extreme control and wok cooking are a bit difficult on induction, but at least it's ~possible. A consumer gas range simply doesnt put enough effective power into the cookware. This isnt only about boiling water quickly. This is about getting a pan hot enoug…

> A consumer gas range simply doesnt put enough effective power into the cookware. I like both gas and induction but are you really comparing the equivalent equipment in your anecdote? The cheapest induction range on us-appliance.com (FCFI3083AS) is $1000, and has a 3600w "boost" burner, or ~12K BTUs A $1000 gas range from the same company (Frigidaire, FCRG3062AB) has an 18K BTU burner. That's significantly more powe…

The gas burners are wildly inefficient at transferring heat to the pot/pan. E.g. Wirecutter says gas is only 32% efficient, so the nominal 18 BTUs is only 5.8 BTUs in the pan. Whereas electric is at least 75% efficient (higher for induction) so a nominally 12 BTU electric stove provides at least 9 BTUs in the pan. In this case the electric stove is still effectively more than 50% more powerful.

Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#44

Post by ska » Thu, Dec 21, 2023, 6:41 PM UTC

bsder wrote: post #38

ska wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That might be a bit of propaganda Not really, there are a number of techniques that are harder (some not possible) on electric which has less control and high latency. But ... it only matters if you are going to use such techniques.

On old school electric. Induction is way better for control and latency than gas. The only issue is if you need to genuinely ignite something (like in wok cooking--but, then, get a blowtorch--if it's good enough for J. Kenji Lopez-Alt it's good enough for you). One real problem is that the standalone induction burners are only 110V in the US and that hamstrings them dramatically. Induction cooktops, however, do not s…

Agree induction is pretty great, although it limits cookware and still doesn't work for all techniques (blowtorch doesn't replace everything). And you are right that the 110V are underpowered.

The ones I've used are less granular than gas (which is essentially continuous) and latency is similar. From what I've seen europe is still way ahead on induction offerings, but it seems to be getting better.

I'd probably lean towards induction these days because the particulates from gas are obviously a problem and not easily dealt with - but I won't pretend induction is a 100% drop in replacement/improvement.

Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#45

Post by bwb » Thu, Dec 21, 2023, 6:41 PM UTC

vsskanth wrote: post #16

bwb wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That might be a bit of propaganda from the gas industry over the last 50 years. I heard similar but when i dug into it appeared to be bunk… i cook on electric now and love it.

I don't know about your specific circumstances but for Indian cooking, gas is just miles ahead. We have electric at home, It just takes forever to cook anything and it's hard to control the heat. Our friends with gas cooktops get done in half the time.

Something is off there, I grew up cooking on gas, and previous place I had a nice Bosch 6 burner. The electric one we have is better and I prefer it. It is fast and never had issues like that.

Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#46

Post by LUmBULtERA » Thu, Dec 21, 2023, 6:43 PM UTC

simonsarris wrote: post #25

bob1029 wrote: post #3

I just moved from a home with induction range to one with gas range and I feel like I am on crazy pills waiting for anything to happen now. I get that things like extreme control and wok cooking are a bit difficult on induction, but at least it's ~possible. A consumer gas range simply doesnt put enough effective power into the cookware. This isnt only about boiling water quickly. This is about getting a pan hot enoug…

> A consumer gas range simply doesnt put enough effective power into the cookware. I like both gas and induction but are you really comparing the equivalent equipment in your anecdote? The cheapest induction range on us-appliance.com (FCFI3083AS) is $1000, and has a 3600w "boost" burner, or ~12K BTUs A $1000 gas range from the same company (Frigidaire, FCRG3062AB) has an 18K BTU burner. That's significantly more powe…

Most of the gas stove's heat is lost and doesn't make it into the food though. Hard to know how much, but I read maybe only 30-40% of a gas stove's BTU output actually makes it into the food... so I would actually think a 12k BTU induction stove could put more heat into the food you're cooking than an 18k BTU gas burner. If this is the summer time, the gas burner is extra sucky and heating up your home. You also need to blast your exhaust fan when using a gas burner and may therefore need to condition more air than with an induction.

Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#47

Post by swashboon » Thu, Dec 21, 2023, 6:44 PM UTC

simonsarris wrote: post #25

bob1029 wrote: post #3

I just moved from a home with induction range to one with gas range and I feel like I am on crazy pills waiting for anything to happen now. I get that things like extreme control and wok cooking are a bit difficult on induction, but at least it's ~possible. A consumer gas range simply doesnt put enough effective power into the cookware. This isnt only about boiling water quickly. This is about getting a pan hot enoug…

> A consumer gas range simply doesnt put enough effective power into the cookware. I like both gas and induction but are you really comparing the equivalent equipment in your anecdote? The cheapest induction range on us-appliance.com (FCFI3083AS) is $1000, and has a 3600w "boost" burner, or ~12K BTUs A $1000 gas range from the same company (Frigidaire, FCRG3062AB) has an 18K BTU burner. That's significantly more powe…

Yes and the efficiency rating of an induction device compared to gas is about 3x because its heating the container directly vs indirectly.

https://www.energystar.gov/partner_resources/brand_owner_res...

Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#48

Post by legitster » Thu, Dec 21, 2023, 6:45 PM UTC

kaibee wrote: post #30

vsskanth wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about your specific circumstances but for Indian cooking, gas is just miles ahead. We have electric at home, It just takes forever to cook anything and it's hard to control the heat. Our friends with gas cooktops get done in half the time.

This might be a problem with your range. I bought a house recently with a new flipper-grade electric range and the first time I used the large burner on it, the amount of heat it put out completely eclipsed what the range in my previous apartment did. The only difference is that the new one has a glass top. On the high setting I can't even bring my hand within 6 inches of the burner once its up to temperature.

The glasstops come with their own issues if you are doing a lot of cooking with heavy cast iron pans. I have some recipes that you really have to go to work on the pots and bang them around.

A gas range is really just the ideal setup for the most varieties of cooking, and there's a reason they are almost a requirement for most professional kitchens.

Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#49

Post by LUmBULtERA » Thu, Dec 21, 2023, 6:45 PM UTC

andrewxdiamond wrote: post #13

bob1029 wrote: post #3

I just moved from a home with induction range to one with gas range and I feel like I am on crazy pills waiting for anything to happen now. I get that things like extreme control and wok cooking are a bit difficult on induction, but at least it's ~possible. A consumer gas range simply doesnt put enough effective power into the cookware. This isnt only about boiling water quickly. This is about getting a pan hot enoug…

For water heating specifically, get an electric kettle. They are optimized for boiling water, much faster than gas OR induction on a stove.

If a country with 220/240v electric kettles, I can believe it... but in the US the electric kettle is probably 110/120V at 12-15 amps, then I would think an induction stove kettle could be faster, no?

Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#50

Post by fatbird » Thu, Dec 21, 2023, 6:46 PM UTC

Here in British Columbia, we replaced our gas furnace with a heat pump and received $11,000 in rebates from the provincial and federal governments for doing so. We also replaced our electric stove (that we hated) with induction, not gas (which we loved) due to the health concerns of gas cooking in homes.

I'm not surprised the gas industry is resorting to "inducements" to keep gas in vogue. Our last gas appliance is our water heater, and we're considering getting rid of it as well so we're gas free.