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Commission opens formal proceedings against X under the Digital Services Act

ec.europa.eu

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Re: Commission opens formal proceedings against X under the Digital Services Act

#41

Post by fmajid »

rsynnott wrote: post #23
threeseed wrote: post #8

Interesting that it is timed with the recent launch of Threads in EU. Will definitely establish a compliance benchmark for X. But the big problem for X is that Musk burned so many bridges with fired employees that the list of whistleblowers for any issues will be endless.

I think the timing is _probably_ coincidental, more down to a bunch of different things happening in European law currently than anything else. The Threads delay seems to be down to Digital Markets Act compliance tweaks (the DMA entered into force earlier this year); this is under the Digital Services Act, which enters into force in two weeks. > These are the first formal proceedings launched by the Commission to enf…

Commissioner Breton sent a stark warning to Musk, that was arrogantly brushed off in typical Musk fashion. Musk is now going to be schooled in very expensive fashion as to how being a billionaire does not make you above the laws, in Europe at least, and this is probably why the proceedings were launched, although in all likelihood the EC does not have all its ducks in a row in terms of organization, staffing and processes to enforce the DSA and DMA just yet.

Re: Commission opens formal proceedings against X under the Digital Services Act

#42

Post by red_trumpet »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #24
fabian2k wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the recent leak about the moderation policies for Twitter is correct, they don't actually want to remove that kind of content. So it might not be a matter of not having enough moderators right now but also an intentional policy decision to not sanction posts like this. I can't find an English source here and the original is paywalled, but from a German article ( https://www.heise.de/news/Leak-Leugnung-des-Holocaus…

It's a pretty bad dark joke, but considering it illegal? Especially by an american company, freedom of speech and all that?

If they are operating in the EU, it doesn't matter if it is an american company or not.

Re: Commission opens formal proceedings against X under the Digital Services Act

#43

Post by andylynch »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #24
fabian2k wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the recent leak about the moderation policies for Twitter is correct, they don't actually want to remove that kind of content. So it might not be a matter of not having enough moderators right now but also an intentional policy decision to not sanction posts like this. I can't find an English source here and the original is paywalled, but from a German article ( https://www.heise.de/news/Leak-Leugnung-des-Holocaus…

It's a pretty bad dark joke, but considering it illegal? Especially by an american company, freedom of speech and all that?

There is no absolute right of free speech in the EU (and probably most countries); foreign companies operating there are subject to local laws when doing so. (In my non-EU country that tweet could be interpreted as a hate crime too, quite uncontroversially)

Re: Commission opens formal proceedings against X under the Digital Services Act

#44

Post by ajsnigrutin »

andylynch wrote: post #43
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a pretty bad dark joke, but considering it illegal? Especially by an american company, freedom of speech and all that?

There is no absolute right of free speech in the EU (and probably most countries); foreign companies operating there are subject to local laws when doing so. (In my non-EU country that tweet could be interpreted as a hate crime too, quite uncontroversially)

Sure, but is this joke actually illegal?

Re: Commission opens formal proceedings against X under the Digital Services Act

#45

Post by fmajid »

flanked-evergl wrote: post #32
6footgeek wrote: post #30

So what's the betting that X will be unavailable in Europe by end of day?

I will take the counter bet, and even go as far as saying X will remain available in EU for the next month at least.

Because X will have gone bankrupt and bust worldwide by then?

Re: Commission opens formal proceedings against X under the Digital Services Act

#46

Post by jongjong »

RandomLensman wrote: post #33
jongjong wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For example, they were happy about social media platforms censoring or otherwise suppressing content which opposed the COVID19 vaccine mandates; they didn't raise any alarms there while there was actual substantial manipulation of the algorithms involved... But now that X has mostly removed filtering and manipulations from the algorithms, they begin proceedings against it! Just because they don't like the kind of con…

Not sure what the issue is? European countries not being allowed to have their own culture around speech (which rolls up into the EU to some extent)?

I don't think it's the job of EU government to manipulate the algorithms to suit their values. Their job is the opposite of that; to ensure that the algorithms operate with as little manipulation as possible so that every individual has equal voice/reach on these platforms (at least equal on a per-follower basis) with as little manipulation as possible.

As someone who didn't have much prejudice about the current Israel/Palestine situation, I appreciated seeing both sides; it allowed me to come to the conclusion that both sides fall short of my own moral values and therefore I don't need to involve myself in debates about the lesser or two evils.

Maybe other people with different morals than myself felt that one side met their 'good guy' threshold and wants to support them. They're free to voice their support, but I'd like to keep my taxpayer money in my own country where it can support people whose morals more closely align with my own.

Re: Commission opens formal proceedings against X under the Digital Services Act

#47

Post by fmajid »

rsynnott wrote: post #29
orwin wrote: post #12

Not flagging because it is more interesting than usual for a link about Twitter: it's the first time the law is used, and it also _strongly_ hint that they tried first to get access to the informations without legal proceedings. The legalese is strong, but I think most of it is understandable (which is surprising). But: Twitter is now like the 12th social network, who cares?

I think the interesting bit here is how quickly they’re going out of the gate, really; the DSA doesn’t even come into force for another two weeks. Companies who were depending on DMA and DSA enforcement being on the same basis as GDPR enforcement (ie extremely slow) may be disappointed.

The EU learned from GDPR, that member countries cannot be relied to enforce the law when some like Ireland have deliberately positioned themselves as a tax (and now GDPR) shelter for multinationals. That's why DSA and DMA enforcement is centralized in Brussels.

Re: Commission opens formal proceedings against X under the Digital Services Act

#48

Post by ajsnigrutin »

red_trumpet wrote: post #42
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a pretty bad dark joke, but considering it illegal? Especially by an american company, freedom of speech and all that?

If they are operating in the EU, it doesn't matter if it is an american company or not.

Sure, but can this joke itself be illegal? What law forbids a joke like this? It's not calling for violence, it's not denying the holocaust (just the opposite), it's just.. well.. a joke.

Re: Commission opens formal proceedings against X under the Digital Services Act

#49

Post by rsynnott »

Hamuko wrote: post #35
rsynnott wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the timing is _probably_ coincidental, more down to a bunch of different things happening in European law currently than anything else. The Threads delay seems to be down to Digital Markets Act compliance tweaks (the DMA entered into force earlier this year); this is under the Digital Services Act, which enters into force in two weeks. > These are the first formal proceedings launched by the Commission to enf…

> A mere 3 years! This is, in fairness, quite proactive by EC standards. Isn't that just because EU rules have quite long transition periods to give companies time to comply with the new rules? GDPR had a two-year transition period before enforcement, and even then there was tons of complaints towards the end of the two-year period on how there just wasn't enough time to comply.

Even after that transition period, _serious_ enforcement didn’t start for years. Prior to 2021, the largest fine under the GDPR had been 50 million (in 2021-2023 the Irish regulator lurched into actual and fined Facebook a couple billion).

I suspect the “local regulators do enforcement” model won’t feature heavily in future EU law; it doesn’t work very well.

Re: Commission opens formal proceedings against X under the Digital Services Act

#50

Post by kypro »

rsynnott wrote: post #17
fabian2k wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the recent leak about the moderation policies for Twitter is correct, they don't actually want to remove that kind of content. So it might not be a matter of not having enough moderators right now but also an intentional policy decision to not sanction posts like this. I can't find an English source here and the original is paywalled, but from a German article ( https://www.heise.de/news/Leak-Leugnung-des-Holocaus…

Bloody hell, that was an _example of a Tweet that they were okay with, in training material_?!

If you're critical of X allowing people to recite jokes about the holocaust, how do you feel about Netflix platforming similar jokes about genocides? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJurYs12ay4)

Do you feel some jokes are too offensive to be said? Do you feel the EU/UK are correct in their stance that offensive (aka hateful) jokes should be illegal?

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