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Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

arstechnica.com

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Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#41

Post by user_7832 »

joshmanders wrote: post #32
aesh2Xa1 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has customers who want to use iMessage. Those customers are not able to use iMessage to securely communicate with Android users. That's pretty clear. If Apple's customers want to be able to use iMessage for such communications then (1) the Android user buys an Apple product, (2) a third party makes a cross-platform iMessage client, or (3) Apple open iMessage to other platforms. Apple is blocking on (2) and (3).

> Apple has customers who want to use iMessage. Those customers are not able to use iMessage to securely communicate with Android users. I as a Signal user want to communicate securely with Facebook Messenger users. Therefore Facebook must allow me to reverse engineer their services and make unauthorized systems to allow me to create a service to send messages to Messenger users from Signal.

I think calls for interoperable communication platforms is a good thing!

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#43

Post by joshmanders »

echelon wrote: post #9
nocoiner wrote: post #4

Beeper CEO, from the article: "If there's enough pressure on Apple, they will have to quit messing with us." "Us," he clarified, meant both Apple's customers using iMessage and Android users trying to chat securely with iPhone friends. "That's who they're penalizing," he wrote. "It's not a Beeper vs. Apple fight, it's Apple versus customers." Not really sure how this is anti-customer. Apple customers have ample acces…

> Apple customers have ample access to iMessage, after all. It's not really fair that Apple gets to build snares around owning the most successful and important platform in modern civilization. This isn't an automobile where there are 50 alternative manufacturers, this is the "everything" device that handles your bills, employment, connections to loved ones, etc. And there's only one other choice of vendor in the Uni…

> It's not really fair that Apple gets to build snares around owning the most successful and important platform in modern civilization.

When did Apple take ownership of the internet? Or are you referring to iOS? Which is actually not even the market leader at all?

My question is, if their ecosystem is soooo much better... Instead of fighting them to make it available on other devices why don't you, I don't know... Buy their devices?

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#44

Post by joshmanders »

user_7832 wrote: post #41
joshmanders wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple has customers who want to use iMessage. Those customers are not able to use iMessage to securely communicate with Android users. I as a Signal user want to communicate securely with Facebook Messenger users. Therefore Facebook must allow me to reverse engineer their services and make unauthorized systems to allow me to create a service to send messages to Messenger users from Signal.

I think calls for interoperable communication platforms is a good thing!

Sure I do too, but I'm against this ridiculous notion that Apple MUST allow others to integrate and use their services for free.

My point is nobody has any problem with the myriad of other messaging platforms that are completely closed, but all of the sudden iMessage is the bad guy because you don't want to have a green bubble with iPhone users?

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#45

Post by user_7832 »

NettleBurr wrote: post #28

>Apple on Wednesday appeared to have blocked what Beeper described as "~5% of Beeper Mini users" from accessing iMessages >Apple previously issued a (somewhat uncommon) statement about Beeper's iMessage access, stating that it "took steps to protect our users by blocking techniques that exploit fake credentials in order to gain access to iMessage." Citing privacy, security, and spam concerns, Apple stated it would "c…

> Not commenting about the ethics of all this, just wondering why technically Apple can only block ~5% of Beeper Mini users instead of all of them? Could this potentially be tied to the use of an email id as the iMessage handle?

I wonder if it might also have anything to do with govt action. I believe a US elected rep recently tweeted in favour of Beeper. Apple cares much more about PR than they'll admit, and server costs for them are negligible.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#46

Post by lotsofpulp »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #40
lotsofpulp wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Apple Music blitzkrieging Spotify is bullshit. What is this referencing? >The lock on subscription payments is bullshit. I pay for app subscriptions outside of the App store, since it is usually cheaper.

> What is this referencing Spotify launched on iOS. Apple saw them competing with iTunes and basically stole their idea to compete with them. That, alone, would be okay. But Apple Music is privileged within iOS and Apple's marketing in a way Spotify cannot be.

Oh, I would apply that to any number of things Apple integrated, for example dropbox/icloud drive.

Google does the same thing. Unfortunately, with the near zero marginal cost of software, I do not see any way around vertical integration unless the law started arbitrarily segregating businesses.

Also, Apple Music came out 5 years after Spotify, so it had a pretty healthy lead. But regardless, any non Apple vendor competing with Apple's bundled products is going to face an uphill battle.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#47

Post by paulddraper »

wolpoli wrote: post #6

MSN Messenger played a similar cat-and-mouse game with AOL Instant Messenger long time ago. Unlike MSN Messenger which used this publicity to grow their own market share, I am not sure what's the end game for Beeper.

The end game for Beeper is a significant presence on the most popular OS on the planet.

I don't think their interested in replacing iMessage directly, if that's your question.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#48

Post by shreyansh_k »

dataangel wrote: post #39
shreyansh_k wrote: post #31

This seems to be Beeper's insincere attempt at dressing up their grievances to appear as if they were in advantage of the [Apple's] customer. Apple has made it clear that they won't bring iMessage to Android. People who choose to invest in Android phones know they won't get access to iMessage. It seems a bit entitled behaviour for someone to feel like Apple should be forced to bring iMessage to Android for any reason…

It's not entitled, it's pushing back against a gigantic company exploiting network effects to create user lock-in, because that's easier than competing on the merit of your products.

That doesn't seem right. People can also push back against Apple by voting with their wallets.

Apple has been able to create their ecosystem by exerting control over it. If someone doesn't like it, they can start their own business giving people what people want. Now, that's another way of pushing against any gigantic company or Apple.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#49

Post by avarun »

freerobby wrote: post #7
mngdtt wrote: post #3

[flagged]

What's this in reference to? WhatsApp, Signal, and many others are in the App Store.

...He's clearly talking about third-party replacements for the default messaging app, ie. apps that are allowed to interface with the SMS/MMS protocol implemented by your phone. Android has had this capability forever.

Not sure why everybody responding to him is being obtuse. If you don't understand something, maybe take a minute to think about it instead of assuming the person you're talking to is an idiot. (Not you, yours is the sanest response by far)

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#50

Post by user_7832 »

joshmanders wrote: post #44
user_7832 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think calls for interoperable communication platforms is a good thing!

Sure I do too, but I'm against this ridiculous notion that Apple MUST allow others to integrate and use their services for free. My point is nobody has any problem with the myriad of other messaging platforms that are completely closed, but all of the sudden iMessage is the bad guy because you don't want to have a green bubble with iPhone users?

I don't think anyone's saying apple must allow them (though such people admittedly exist on the internet, in retrospect). I think its more of disappointment at the speed at which apple is "patching" this.
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