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Htmx Is a Erlang

matt.sh

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Re: Htmx Is a Erlang

#41

Post by firecall »

coolhand2120 wrote: post #27
felixgallo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there is no way any competently written back end system takes 5-7 seconds for any reason whatsoever. A middling back end system with median complexity is doing 10-100K requests per second per server and is near-perfectly horizontally scalable.

If you serve data from a DC in California to the west coast of Australia it will take 10 seconds of just network transfer time. Sometimes data has a high degree of cardinality and cannot be cached. Some companies cannot afford to, or for other reasons cannot, have regional instances of their compute surfaces. This is just one common scenario, there are many others. > A middling back end system with median complexity…

As a fellow Australian here in South Australia, I can say with certainty that I've never had it that bad!

I can measure the difference between US, Singapore and Sydney based DCs, but it's milliseconds.

10 seconds is abnormal and would indicate to me that something isn't functioning as expected!

Re: Htmx Is a Erlang

#42

Post by ljm »

coolhand2120 wrote: post #5

Reading that entire thing was a struggle. Really feels like _everyone_ is wrong here. Yes the current state of FE development is overly dogmatic and cultish. But it always has been. On the other hand the frameworks and build systems are solving actual problems, they're not there for looks. 5-7 second skeleton loaders are there because backend systems are slow, not because of the front end application. You can say "oh…

I think most of the post fell wide of the mark and as much as I hate to be cynical, I feel like the completely tangential Erlang piece is just there to game HN because HN lately can't get enough of Erlang and Elixir.

I don't think there was much to take away from this article except that the author should perhaps spend less time paying attention to the opinion of randos on Twitter.

Re: Htmx Is a Erlang

#43

Post by firecall »

felixgallo wrote: post #7
coolhand2120 wrote: post #5

Reading that entire thing was a struggle. Really feels like _everyone_ is wrong here. Yes the current state of FE development is overly dogmatic and cultish. But it always has been. On the other hand the frameworks and build systems are solving actual problems, they're not there for looks. 5-7 second skeleton loaders are there because backend systems are slow, not because of the front end application. You can say "oh…

there is no way any competently written back end system takes 5-7 seconds for any reason whatsoever. A middling back end system with median complexity is doing 10-100K requests per second per server and is near-perfectly horizontally scalable.

I'm with you on this!

Sure, I can allow users to run reports that take multiple seconds, but I'm generally not delivering that to the browser to be rendered.

And if I was, I'd crash the browser tab. Which is surprisingly easy to do...

Re: Htmx Is a Erlang

#44

Post by andrewflnr »

snowstormsun wrote: post #22

> ah yes, the famous XSS coming from your own backend API calls… Author does not seem to understand the concept of XSS. Of course your own API could return user-provided data to trigger XSS attacks. Entering alert(1); in a messenger to see whether its rendered value is escaped correctly is a famous example.

Hence the mentioned hx-disable. Presumably you wrap any user content with that, right?

Re: Htmx Is a Erlang

#45

Post by thraxil »

miki123211 wrote: post #30

> htmx, a disciple of hypermedia, available only in hardcover do not look for alternatives, has been manifesting itself into existence recently As a screen reader user with no way to read words written on paper (short of getting a scanner and spending hours on putting books through it), I have to look for alternatives. I hate it when authors do this. I get why, but it's still frustrating. There's also the fact that t…

I don't know what they're talking about with "available only in hardcover". Hypermedia Systems is here: https://hypermedia.systems/ available in HTML online, ebook format, hardcover, or you could go to the github repo and probably transform the source into whatever format you want: https://github.com/bigskysoftware/hypermedia-systems

X posts as screenshots suck though.

Re: Htmx Is a Erlang

#46

Post by kitd »

snowstormsun wrote: post #22

> ah yes, the famous XSS coming from your own backend API calls… Author does not seem to understand the concept of XSS. Of course your own API could return user-provided data to trigger XSS attacks. Entering alert(1); in a messenger to see whether its rendered value is escaped correctly is a famous example.

You missed the response though, that the same user input would also cause problems if it was supplied unsanitized via JSON.

Re: Htmx Is a Erlang

#47

Post by troupo »

coolhand2120 wrote: post #5

Reading that entire thing was a struggle. Really feels like _everyone_ is wrong here. Yes the current state of FE development is overly dogmatic and cultish. But it always has been. On the other hand the frameworks and build systems are solving actual problems, they're not there for looks. 5-7 second skeleton loaders are there because backend systems are slow, not because of the front end application. You can say "oh…

> 5-7 second skeleton loaders are there because backend systems are slow, not because of the front end application.

There are very, cery, very few cases of this. The vast majority of "applications" we have are due to people not caring.

E.g. a recent Reddit redesign was praised because their time to paint was 2.4 seconds. Their backend rarely responds in more than 0.4 seconds.

> If FE devs focus on web standards and less on Rube Goldberg machines they would be well served.

Why do you think we have these Rube Goldberg machines? Precisely because standards are utter garbage. And doing anything with them leads to more Rube Goldberg machines.

Re: Htmx Is a Erlang

#48

Post by throwitaway1123 »

miki123211 wrote: post #30

> htmx, a disciple of hypermedia, available only in hardcover do not look for alternatives, has been manifesting itself into existence recently As a screen reader user with no way to read words written on paper (short of getting a scanner and spending hours on putting books through it), I have to look for alternatives. I hate it when authors do this. I get why, but it's still frustrating. There's also the fact that t…

> htmx, a disciple of hypermedia, available only in hardcover do not look for alternatives, has been manifesting itself into existence recently

I think this whole sentence was meant to be a joke. This "article" is filled with juvenile humor, random tangents, and twitter screenshots. The irony of complaining about people not properly using hypermedia while omitting some of the basic accessibility attributes of hyper text markup language (alt text) is astonishing.

Re: Htmx Is a Erlang

#49

Post by troupo »

I find all the marketing, advertising intentional or not, around HTMX really obnoxious.

Does it have its merits? Maybe? I don't know, I can never get past the memes and shit-slinging. Or past them superficially co-opting terms they have nothing to do with like Erlang, or hypermedia.

It's a toy mascarading as a serious tool.

Re: Htmx Is a Erlang

#50

Post by ezekg »

ahmedfromtunis wrote: post #26
aidenn0 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YMMV: I agreed with the points, but found the depth to be rather minimal and the style to be completely off-putting.

The style is rather confusing, and hinders comprehension rather than improve it. The text jumps from one topic to the other so abruptly that I had to check multiple times if I'm still reading the same article.

It also jumps between relevant embedded tweets and irrelevant tweets, which I found hard to comprehend.

I guess I'm just not jiving with the author's thought process.

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