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Tohands – Smart calculator for small businesses

smart.tohands.in

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Re: Tohands – Smart calculator for small businesses

#41

Post by TeMPOraL »

santhoshr wrote: post #37

I think this is a ridiculously brilliant idea. It's probably hard for Americans and folks in the West to imagine why this is a big deal. There are millions of vendors who basically dominate India's retail market, which is probably one of the largest unorganized corners of the global economy with the world's largest population. There have been tons of efforts and a significant amount of VC funding to digitize unorgani…

> This product basically enables me to do what I already do as a shopkeeper and maintain existing efficiencies while I also have the opportunity to digitize my transactions. I think it could be a game-changer.

Perhaps a stupid question on my part, but I wonder whether it'll really help you "maintain existing efficiencies". I'd imagine that a classical calculator-based workflow has efficiencies of the following kind:

- Approximately zero latency on I/O. Whether it's adding a digit or performing a calculation, screen updates instantly. This is something no smart device I've ever seen offers, because modern tech stacks make it near-impossible to achieve.

- Optimized for speed. Beyond no latency, this also means error-tolerant workflow. You can feel when you make a mistake, and it's easy to nuke the entire calculation you're doing and re-do it again. On the product site, I couldn't find a video showing how it's actually used, but going by the diagrams alone, Tohands seems to be effectively committing every time you press the "=" button. That feels like adding a pain in either having to undo things, or having to be super careful.

Please tell me if I'm wrong about the product, or the calculator-based workflow. I didn't work in retail, but I did observe people doing calculator-based retail and accounting in the past.

Re: Tohands – Smart calculator for small businesses

#42

Post by gsharma »

2Gkashmiri wrote: post #9

i have a fundamental problem with "accounting" for small businesses. 1. if they are registered with GST, they should probably start maintaining inventory and for that,this device is not useful. 2. if they are NOT registered with GST, they can't even bother with this because nowadays UPI is becoming the norm and all sale gets recorded there anyway. this would only serve the niche of "not-registered for GST and using c…

> this would only serve the niche of "not-registered for GST and using cash"

Wouldn’t this segment have an incentive to not digitize their records as they’re evading tax?

This was the case several years ago, not sure if still relevant anymore. People evading tax were only interested in non-cloud solutions for their records.

Re: Tohands – Smart calculator for small businesses

#43

Post by TeMPOraL »

detourdog wrote: post #31
anujdeshpande wrote: post #2

Syncs with their phone app, to keep a track of bills and expenses. Based on the Espressif ESP32. Quite handy for small shop owners who can't have a full-blown computer+screen cash register. Disclaimer: I am working as a freelancer for their next version of hardware that will be based on Linux.

I think moving to a full blown operating system is moving in the wrong direction. I think moving in the other direction towards a strictly hardware double entry book keeping system would be progress. I think any operating system over complicates and encumbers the idea with un-needed dependices. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-entry_bookkeeping

> I think any operating system over complicates and encumbers the idea with un-needed dependices.

The prime problem is latency, which becomes both noticeably larger and unpredictable. Both those aspects cause huge loss of ergonomics. It's quite easy to tell whether a piece of hardware is doing things directly in firmware, or if it's running a full OS with a software stack - the latter has neither instant nor predictable feedback.

A good example would be phones, for anyone who remembers the transition from feature phones to iOS and Android smartphones. That transition is where we lost predictable input latency, and thus ability to develop muscle memory and operate device without looking at it. E.g. texting people while keeping the phone in your pocket was a typical thing teenagers did, that became impossible with modern smartphones.

Re: Tohands – Smart calculator for small businesses

#44

Post by santhoshr »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #41
santhoshr wrote: post #37

I think this is a ridiculously brilliant idea. It's probably hard for Americans and folks in the West to imagine why this is a big deal. There are millions of vendors who basically dominate India's retail market, which is probably one of the largest unorganized corners of the global economy with the world's largest population. There have been tons of efforts and a significant amount of VC funding to digitize unorgani…

> This product basically enables me to do what I already do as a shopkeeper and maintain existing efficiencies while I also have the opportunity to digitize my transactions. I think it could be a game-changer. Perhaps a stupid question on my part, but I wonder whether it'll really help you "maintain existing efficiencies". I'd imagine that a classical calculator-based workflow has efficiencies of the following kind:…

Super interesting. I think you are right. The whole play is about latency. How quickly can I get in and out is the only calculus in the minds of most retail customers in this segment. Like my mom would send me to the store to buy ingredients while she is literally cooking because she ran out of something, and I would need to be in and out in I agree that the calculator is literally in every one of these stores because of zero latency. The design question is how can you build something that has greater digitization and data storage capabilities (and I/O to connect to payments/phones) while keeping latency as low or close to a calculator. I'm just saying this comes close, where every other $100MM VC funded play wants to add significant latency to the design and thus have seen much lower adoption.

Re: Tohands – Smart calculator for small businesses

#45

Post by 2Gkashmiri »

gsharma wrote: post #42
2Gkashmiri wrote: post #9

i have a fundamental problem with "accounting" for small businesses. 1. if they are registered with GST, they should probably start maintaining inventory and for that,this device is not useful. 2. if they are NOT registered with GST, they can't even bother with this because nowadays UPI is becoming the norm and all sale gets recorded there anyway. this would only serve the niche of "not-registered for GST and using c…

> this would only serve the niche of "not-registered for GST and using cash" Wouldn’t this segment have an incentive to not digitize their records as they’re evading tax? This was the case several years ago, not sure if still relevant anymore. People evading tax were only interested in non-cloud solutions for their records.

No one is evading tax. Thats the beauty and craziness of gSt. All tax is already paid for and collected by govt.

What the end dealer does when he is nit registered for gst is avoid 18% tax on HIS MARGIN. thats peanuts compared to 90% of the product cost. That if end dealer gets 10% profit.

You only evade taxes in gst if you purchase imported goods outside of tax chain in cash or from manufacturers who sell in cash or service provider who sells in cash.

If you pay by bank, the gst is almost always paid beforehand

Re: Tohands – Smart calculator for small businesses

#46

Post by 2Gkashmiri »

detourdog wrote: post #39
2Gkashmiri wrote: post #9

i have a fundamental problem with "accounting" for small businesses. 1. if they are registered with GST, they should probably start maintaining inventory and for that,this device is not useful. 2. if they are NOT registered with GST, they can't even bother with this because nowadays UPI is becoming the norm and all sale gets recorded there anyway. this would only serve the niche of "not-registered for GST and using c…

USA, no idea what a GST is or it's requirements.

Gst is indirect sales tax on goods and services. Indian gst is modelled after Canadian gst/hst if you know that.

Re: Tohands – Smart calculator for small businesses

#47

Post by anujdeshpande »

LeafItAlone wrote: post #11
anujdeshpande wrote: post #2

Syncs with their phone app, to keep a track of bills and expenses. Based on the Espressif ESP32. Quite handy for small shop owners who can't have a full-blown computer+screen cash register. Disclaimer: I am working as a freelancer for their next version of hardware that will be based on Linux.

What is the hardware like in the next version?

It's a lot more capable than the current version - but from the outside it's almost the same size and shape.

- Denser display with full color range (current one is monochrome)

- USB support

- Cellular modem built-in (WiFi isn't always available in stores, shopkeepers mostly end up using phone hotspots. It will still have WiFi though)

- Speakers

Re: Tohands – Smart calculator for small businesses

#48

Post by smabie »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #43
detourdog wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think moving to a full blown operating system is moving in the wrong direction. I think moving in the other direction towards a strictly hardware double entry book keeping system would be progress. I think any operating system over complicates and encumbers the idea with un-needed dependices. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-entry_bookkeeping

> I think any operating system over complicates and encumbers the idea with un-needed dependices. The prime problem is latency , which becomes both noticeably larger and unpredictable . Both those aspects cause huge loss of ergonomics. It's quite easy to tell whether a piece of hardware is doing things directly in firmware, or if it's running a full OS with a software stack - the latter has neither instant nor predic…

That's because we lost keyboards?

Re: Tohands – Smart calculator for small businesses

#49

Post by c22 »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #41
santhoshr wrote: post #37

I think this is a ridiculously brilliant idea. It's probably hard for Americans and folks in the West to imagine why this is a big deal. There are millions of vendors who basically dominate India's retail market, which is probably one of the largest unorganized corners of the global economy with the world's largest population. There have been tons of efforts and a significant amount of VC funding to digitize unorgani…

> This product basically enables me to do what I already do as a shopkeeper and maintain existing efficiencies while I also have the opportunity to digitize my transactions. I think it could be a game-changer. Perhaps a stupid question on my part, but I wonder whether it'll really help you "maintain existing efficiencies". I'd imagine that a classical calculator-based workflow has efficiencies of the following kind:…

From the video it looks like you use the dedicated "cash in" or "cash out" buttons to commit.

Re: Tohands – Smart calculator for small businesses

#50

Post by imiric »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #41
santhoshr wrote: post #37

I think this is a ridiculously brilliant idea. It's probably hard for Americans and folks in the West to imagine why this is a big deal. There are millions of vendors who basically dominate India's retail market, which is probably one of the largest unorganized corners of the global economy with the world's largest population. There have been tons of efforts and a significant amount of VC funding to digitize unorgani…

> This product basically enables me to do what I already do as a shopkeeper and maintain existing efficiencies while I also have the opportunity to digitize my transactions. I think it could be a game-changer. Perhaps a stupid question on my part, but I wonder whether it'll really help you "maintain existing efficiencies". I'd imagine that a classical calculator-based workflow has efficiencies of the following kind:…

The latency is not clear from the demo videos, but there's no reason why the device couldn't sync with the cloud in the background. It's probably fine if cloud syncing is not done in real-time, which leaves plenty of time to provide an instant response. I'm sure this is something the engineers thought about, considering they seem to know their target market well.
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