Why not just run daily lottery in previous day? With non-transferable licenses to enter. Win one and you get in, don't win one and you are barred from entering?
Is this a serious proposal or am I missing how this is a joke?
New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan
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Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan
#42Why not just run daily lottery in previous day? With non-transferable licenses to enter. Win one and you get in, don't win one and you are barred from entering?
we can either "just" have ppl pay $15, a nice simple free market solution that doesn't limit anyone.
or we can run a daily lottery and create a port of call just outside NYC for people to wait until they win the daily lottery. and administer the daily lottery. and somehow communicate daily to the winners. and really set a hard cap on entrants.
"just" does seem to apply to one of those options to me, but not the second
Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan
#43Just like how lottery is supposed to increase funding for schools but the amount thay got brought in due to lottery was then subtracted from other sources so it was a wash. I'm assuming this is going to be the same thing unless it's earmarked for public transportation by law instead of going into a general fund. Just like gas tax and car tabs in other states that goes to "fixing the roads by people that use it the mo…
Congestion charges are not primarily about money. The desired effect is discouraging people from driving there. The income is a nice side effect, but not the goal.
Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
What is your alternative?
My alternative are things that, unfortunately, would never fly politically: 1) Regulate urban business density in coastal cities and cities more generally limited by water. 2) More multi-core metropolises where the highest density is either spread out entirely, or spread to multiple districts sufficiently far away from each other. Edit: The comment by hamandcheese showed I had forgotten this important modifier for po…
Urban density doesn't cause the issue of traffic. The issue of traffic is caused by cars. Urban density allows public transportation, the only current viable alternative, to be financially sound on a large scale.
Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan
#45This idiocy will only hurt the working class employees who drive in from the outerboros.
> There will also be discounts for low-incomes motorists (below $50,000 per year) who need the car to get around. However, as a 2022 study pointed out, most drivers who enter Manhattan have medium or high incomes, meaning only 4% of drivers will receive a discount I read this as "96% of drivers will be fine." Do you have other information to add here? Would be interested if so.
$50k in NYC is nothing. $350-$450 month in tolls is enough to break households that pull in way more than that.
Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan
#46Now that's some gaslighting there. Congestion as in there is too many poor entering the Manhattan, so they set the fee so only those who can afford $15 can enter.
If it was about actual congestion then the fee would be proportional to one's affluence, otherwise the rich will just come in as if nothing was imposed.
Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan
#47As a Manhattan resident, I’m excited. There should be at least one city in the USA built for people instead of cars. I understand it’s not for everybody, but 75% of the residential space in the county is only zoned for insipid, paved single-family home suburban hellscapes. Leave one city for people who want a European-style walkable city.
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Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan
#48In London, we have a inner congestion zone, which is surrounded by a ultra low emission zone. The low emission zone only requires your car to be a few years old, though it has a bigger impact on vans and lorries.
Low emission zones should be called instead "no poor people zones" which is what in practice they are.
You seem oblivious to the irony here—owning a car already puts you in the upper tier of wealth in the world.
Talking about Manhattan specifically, this is already about the most expensive place in the world and the only place in the US with this scheme in place, adding more traffic isn’t going to change that so no point in using it as an example of anything.
Plenty of countries that are not so car dependent have pedestrian zones in less affluent cities.
Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan
#49Now that's some gaslighting there. Congestion as in there is too many poor entering the Manhattan, so they set the fee so only those who can afford $15 can enter. If it was about actual congestion then the fee would be proportional to one's affluence, otherwise the rich will just come in as if nothing was imposed.
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Re: New York approves the first congestion toll in the US: $15 to enter Manhattan
#50Ahh New York, let me tell you how Californians get around this without needing a “fake plate”: * just take it off completely, who’s checking? * thick black plastic license plate cover. Everybody’s got them. * front plate optional! * buy one of those “digital” license plates and just set it to show the car logo instead of ID. Teslas do it! I’m just kidding by the way, California really needs to fix this problem too. T…
Just take the vehicle. Permanently. Sell it and put the money into food banks