Nikon makes firmware for astronauts to block cosmic rays in photos • Hacker News Board

Re: Nikon makes firmware for astronauts to block cosmic rays in photos

#41

Post by davidmurdoch » Sat, Dec 09, 2023, 5:43 PM UTC

dekhn wrote: post #31

davidmurdoch wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the freezer thing about?

there are several sources of pixel noise, some of which are temperature dependent. Making the sensor cold reduces the temperature-dependent pixel noise background.

So less sensor noise, but all your lenses are foggy now. Haha

Re: Nikon makes firmware for astronauts to block cosmic rays in photos

#42

Post by gruez » Sat, Dec 09, 2023, 5:43 PM UTC

yakubin wrote: post #38

sudosysgen wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not really true, it's only a problem for the shutter. The sensor doesn't really break.

You’re right. I misremembered. The term is “shutter life”. Same result though.

Do mirrorless cameras even have physical shutters? Or is it all digital?

Re: Nikon makes firmware for astronauts to block cosmic rays in photos

#43

Post by yakubin » Sat, Dec 09, 2023, 6:07 PM UTC

gruez wrote: post #42

yakubin wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re right. I misremembered. The term is “shutter life”. Same result though.

Do mirrorless cameras even have physical shutters? Or is it all digital?

Most do. Some, like Nikon Z8 and Z9, don't.

Re: Nikon makes firmware for astronauts to block cosmic rays in photos

#44

Post by yakubin » Sat, Dec 09, 2023, 6:11 PM UTC

wtallis wrote: post #39

yakubin wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re right. I misremembered. The term is “shutter life”. Same result though.

Not the same result: we're talking about taking a picture without opening the shutter.

Given that shutter sounds are produced, I'd guess the shutter is opened[1]:

> During this time, shutter sounds will be produced.

[1]: https://helpguide.sony.net/ilc/2010/v1/en/contents/TP0003229...>

Re: Nikon makes firmware for astronauts to block cosmic rays in photos

#45

Post by malfist » Sat, Dec 09, 2023, 6:13 PM UTC

davidmurdoch wrote: post #41

dekhn wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there are several sources of pixel noise, some of which are temperature dependent. Making the sensor cold reduces the temperature-dependent pixel noise background.

So less sensor noise, but all your lenses are foggy now. Haha

Well, for dark frames the lense cap is on. The idea is that you're taking a totally black photo.

Freezer, along with being cold is also a big metal box that will help deflect some rays

Re: Nikon makes firmware for astronauts to block cosmic rays in photos

#46

Post by sudosysgen » Sat, Dec 09, 2023, 6:28 PM UTC

gruez wrote: post #42

yakubin wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re right. I misremembered. The term is “shutter life”. Same result though.

Do mirrorless cameras even have physical shutters? Or is it all digital?

Older ones do, because the readout speed of sensors was not fast enough. Cameras with stacked or global shutters generally don't, because it's no longer an advantage. In between, it's a choice you can make whether or not to use the shutter.

Re: Nikon makes firmware for astronauts to block cosmic rays in photos

#47

Post by COGlory » Sat, Dec 09, 2023, 6:32 PM UTC

We do a very similar thing for X-Ray rejection from electron microscope cameras.

Re: Nikon makes firmware for astronauts to block cosmic rays in photos

#48

Post by mikewarot » Sat, Dec 09, 2023, 7:18 PM UTC

gsich wrote: post #20

Nikon should fix file numbering in general.

The file numbering system is unique enough that you're not going to have the same file and folder name together, and you can set the prefix, iirc.

My photos are in /photos/yyyy/yyyymmdd/nikon1xx/dscnxxxx.jpg and I've been using this system since 1997

Re: Nikon makes firmware for astronauts to block cosmic rays in photos

#49

Post by dghlsakjg » Sat, Dec 09, 2023, 8:38 PM UTC

yakubin wrote: post #44

wtallis wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the same result: we're talking about taking a picture without opening the shutter.

Given that shutter sounds are produced, I'd guess the shutter is opened[1]: > During this time, shutter sounds will be produced. [1]: https://helpguide.sony.net/ilc/2010/v1/en/contents/TP0003229... >

The shutter is actually being closed. On mirrorless cameras the shutter is by default open so that viewfinder framing can be accomplished, then it quickly closes, opens for the photo, and ends closed before opening again to act as a viewfinder.

In the case of a reference photo it is closing, not opening, taking a read of the sensor, then opening again.

Re: Nikon makes firmware for astronauts to block cosmic rays in photos

#50

Post by dghlsakjg » Sat, Dec 09, 2023, 8:45 PM UTC

yakubin wrote: post #28

lakpan wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, wait. The camera can fix dead pixels but only does so once a month? Dead pixels are dead easy to detect by the sensor, why don’t they do it immediately? Way to ruin a bunch of photos between cleanups…

Every photo taken shortens the life of a sensor.

Yeah, but that’s like saying your mechanic shouldn’t take test drives because every mile driven shortens the life of the car.

The shutter, which is replaceable, is normally rated, for 200k-1mm actuations MTBF.

Even taking a reference photo every day won’t truly impact shutter life.

Anecdotally: I have a 20 year old Canon 1D that is 50% over it’s rated shutter life, and that camera was used for photojournalism (used HARD) for most of its life.