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Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

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Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#41

Post by jacquesm »

dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #33
mulmen wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if the unsubscribe link works I still report spam as spam. If it is unsolicited then it is spam, plain and simple.

I'm very surprised to see you are being downvoted, I was convinced everybody is doing that. Spam is spam, period. Asking me go click on a link that leads somewhere is just a waste of my time - and there are still a few culprits out there who instead of unsubscribing me straight away demand that I log in to "manage my notification preferences"!

The worst ones are the ones that add a whole paragraph to their spam to explain why it isn't spam and they have a right to send you their junk.

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#42

Post by stareatgoats »

gpderetta wrote: post #27
stareatgoats wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> or even if it takes too long to load Which is not ideal, and might explain why Gmail routinely puts perfectly legit correspondence in my spam folder - again and again. I realize this might well be a problem stemming from email clients having but one option to flag emails: spam. Ideally one should have more options - as it is scamming, spoofing and innocuous unsolicited marketing (and slow loading messages it seems)…

> scamming, spoofing and innocuous unsolicited marketing it is all spam; none of us want to see any of it, why do we need more fine grained control?

you forgot to mention "slow loading emails", and I might add "I don't remember signing up to this newsletter", or "ok I signed up to this newsletter but this article triggers me" etc.

This "users can't handle fine-grained control" philosophy is stupifying users IMO. Granted, many don't have the knowhow, but they could just use the (hypothetical) dislike button, and the anti-spam AI could in that case place little weight to their judgement call. The interested user could instead be placed on a journey to be ever more adept at identifying email misuse.

Edit: as another commenter mentions, at present these completely unreliable signals to the anti-spam software causes for example Gmail to put perfectly legit emails in the spam folder - so I have to wade through a load of junk anyway (otherwise the legit messages in there gets deleted after 30 days).

The system is broken, and people reporting irrelevant things as spam is most likely a part of it.

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#43

Post by arp242 »

Ekaros wrote: post #29
arp242 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That hugely draconian. Are you 100% sure you never just signed up for a newsletter and forgot about it? Are you 100% sure your email didn't end up there in some other way? I used to send out some newsletters for my website; just a programming blog thingy. It was just a form with a simple program on the server to collect email addresses. Wrote everything myself; no external service or whatnot involved. I got some pret…

With email spam it has been long proven that best way to act is to treat all actors as malicious. As there is enough malicious actors around. And it took me a minute to find phishing mail with unsubscribe link. Which entirely proves my original point. Sure those sending phishing mails won't stop the mails I probably ordered somewhere?

> And it took me a minute to find phishing mail with unsubscribe link. Which entirely proves my original point

You weren't talking about phishing before. You're shifting this to something radically different.

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#44

Post by [deleted] »

dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #33
mulmen wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if the unsubscribe link works I still report spam as spam. If it is unsolicited then it is spam, plain and simple.

I'm very surprised to see you are being downvoted, I was convinced everybody is doing that. Spam is spam, period. Asking me go click on a link that leads somewhere is just a waste of my time - and there are still a few culprits out there who instead of unsubscribing me straight away demand that I log in to "manage my notification preferences"!

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#45

Post by offices »

piva00 wrote: post #40
dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm very surprised to see you are being downvoted, I was convinced everybody is doing that. Spam is spam, period. Asking me go click on a link that leads somewhere is just a waste of my time - and there are still a few culprits out there who instead of unsubscribing me straight away demand that I log in to "manage my notification preferences"!

Or some simply do not unsubscribe you. After feeling gaslighted by some spam emails that I was very sure I had unsubscribed from, I started keeping a spreadsheet to track my requests with date, and what link I followed to get removed. Almost 25% of my requests have never been honoured, it's disgusting.

Well, computers are tough. It takes ~31 days to update a database, right?

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#46

Post by Ekaros »

arp242 wrote: post #43
Ekaros wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With email spam it has been long proven that best way to act is to treat all actors as malicious. As there is enough malicious actors around. And it took me a minute to find phishing mail with unsubscribe link. Which entirely proves my original point. Sure those sending phishing mails won't stop the mails I probably ordered somewhere?

> And it took me a minute to find phishing mail with unsubscribe link. Which entirely proves my original point You weren't talking about phishing before. You're shifting this to something radically different.

I originally replied to comment stating:

> Yeah no. Emails which include an unsubscribe link are legit enough to not do that. Actual spammers don't bother to include an unsubscribe link.

I found a phishing email with unsubscribe link. Thus I think we can generalize that emails containing unsubscribe in general are not legit nearly enough of times to trust that. Thus only correct and safe way is to mark them as spam and let the email provider eventually to handle them correctly for everyone.

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#47

Post by arp242 »

gpderetta wrote: post #32
arp242 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That hugely draconian. Are you 100% sure you never just signed up for a newsletter and forgot about it? Are you 100% sure your email didn't end up there in some other way? I used to send out some newsletters for my website; just a programming blog thingy. It was just a form with a simple program on the server to collect email addresses. Wrote everything myself; no external service or whatnot involved. I got some pret…

You do not need to be 100% sure. 99% of the time you explicitly unsubscribed from all categories, but the sender just added a new one and helpfully opted you in. So, yes, "fuck you".

And that other 1%[1] is just collateral damage? "Sucks to be you!" Please note they were suggesting that a single email should "blacklist the domain".

You are pretty much suggesting the very thing Microsoft is doing here.

This is not a serious suggestion in any shape or form.

[1]: A number I have serious doubts about by the way, but we'll use it for now.

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#48

Post by justinclift »

mulmen wrote: post #14
treyfitty wrote: post #7

Maybe Tutanota.com has a lot of outlook users reporting your marketing emails as spam. I generally do this if the unsubscribe route is too painful, or even if it takes too long to load.

Even if the unsubscribe link works I still report spam as spam. If it is unsolicited then it is spam, plain and simple.

When someone sends spam perhaps don't click on any "Unsubscribe" type link...?

Those links are often spammer controlled and just confirm your email address as valid.

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#49

Post by justinclift »

jacquesm wrote: post #41
dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm very surprised to see you are being downvoted, I was convinced everybody is doing that. Spam is spam, period. Asking me go click on a link that leads somewhere is just a waste of my time - and there are still a few culprits out there who instead of unsubscribing me straight away demand that I log in to "manage my notification preferences"!

The worst ones are the ones that add a whole paragraph to their spam to explain why it isn't spam and they have a right to send you their junk.

Yeah, those are lousy.

Even worse though are places like Atlassian, which add a footer to some of their emails like "this email can't be unsubscribed from".

Even though it's directly illegal for them to have emails that can't be unsubscribed from.

It's their own special "Fuck You!" message to their email recipients.

Re: Microsoft Outlook Blocking All Email from Tutanota.com Domain as Spam

#50

Post by that_guy_iain »

dathinab wrote: post #9

This is just that last of many cases of MS Outlook acting in an intentional power abusive market distorting way. I do not know about tutanota and if they are a bad actor in the email space. But I remember them having done funny things like banning the complete German Hetzner IP range because Hetzner didn't want to give them customers information without an curt order (which I guess Hetzner isn't allowed to do either…

> But I remember them having done funny things like banning the complete German Hetzner IP range because Hetzner didn't want to give them customers information without an curt order (which I guess Hetzner isn't allowed to do either iff the customer(s) in question is a private customer...).

All companies cover by GDPR (or similar privacy laws) would have this requirement. Can't be handling out information on customers to random companies willynilly.

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