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Snaps. Why? Please Stop

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Re: Snaps. Why? Please Stop

#41

Post by mike_d »

apitman wrote: post #30

Package managers are not a sustainable solution to application distribution. It puts way too much on package maintainers, which is a thankless job. Whether or not you like Flatpaks, Snaps, etc, it's clear that we need some sort of cross distro (and preferably cross platform) application format that's simple for developers to target. Personally I ship static executables, but that doesn't work for GUI apps.

It is basically a solved problem for developers.

https://build.opensuse.org/ https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Build_Service_supported_bui... https://github.com/openSUSE/open-build-service

Re: Snaps. Why? Please Stop

#43

Post by tapoxi »

belval wrote: post #37
xet7 wrote: post #35

This is discussion at 2019-2021. There are many distros where snapd is not installed by default, including Linux Mint: https://snapcraft.io/docs/installing-snapd Nobody is forcing you to use distro that includes snapd by default. Snap has advantages for server software that are using Snap strict sandbox: - Strict sandbox does not allow read access outside of /var/snap/APPNAME/common . Only common directory is writeab…

I have ~8 self-hosted services with docker-compose and one with snap (nextcloud). While I get that snap gets some flak for how cavalier it can be with your system, ultimately my nextcloud is always up to date and I've had very little effort to put into it in over 7-8 years, which is not something I can say from my running docker containers. It might not be for everyone, but from a security standpoint it's much less f…

Why not just write something (or use a pre-existing tool) to update your docker containers? I know on Kubernetes there's plenty of tooling around Helm.

Re: Snaps. Why? Please Stop

#44

Post by hurryer »

Snaps move the packaging burden from the distribution to the software maker, which is how it should be. It's the only scalable way.

Imagine Microsoft having to package the millions of distinct Windows applications.

Re: Snaps. Why? Please Stop

#45

Post by idontknowwhynot »

snaps is starting to give me a headache. I installed chromium in my ubuntu and it installed it as a snap (even through apt, it just a transitional package that installs the snap.), and for some reason it has a dependency with cups (printing software). Every time i delete cups it is reinstalled..again and again, i couldn't find any solution.

Re: Snaps. Why? Please Stop

#46

Post by XorNot »

tapoxi wrote: post #43
belval wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have ~8 self-hosted services with docker-compose and one with snap (nextcloud). While I get that snap gets some flak for how cavalier it can be with your system, ultimately my nextcloud is always up to date and I've had very little effort to put into it in over 7-8 years, which is not something I can say from my running docker containers. It might not be for everyone, but from a security standpoint it's much less f…

Why not just write something (or use a pre-existing tool) to update your docker containers? I know on Kubernetes there's plenty of tooling around Helm.

I redid my docker stuff with podman and quadlet recently and it's been great. Quadlet turns the containers into behaving like regular systemd services (i.e. you can trigger them with timers), and "auto update" is just setting Pull=true when the container re-runs (there's a heck of a lot of good reasons to also not do this).

Re: Snaps. Why? Please Stop

#47

Post by dark-star »

The thing I hate most about snaps is how they pollute the mount namespace with loop mounts. Install a few apps and 2/3rds of your `mount` output will be /dev/loopX devices. Especially annoying since I often do loop-mounts myself and picking them out from the flood of unrelated snaps is a pain.

If they could somehow hide the mounts (in a different mount namespace maybe?) that would be cool. I mean still, I would prefer more open formats such as flatpack and appimage (since with snaps you buy into the Canonical ecosystem with no way to provide alternative appstores) ......

Re: Snaps. Why? Please Stop

#48

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

IshKebab wrote: post #16

> Sure, Snaps make it easy to install 3rd party software, but I just find this problematic, causing fragmentation, and just all around a bad idea. He knows the answer, he just doesn't like it for stupid ideological reasons.

For reasons, yes, perhaps even ideological reasons, but if you're going to call them stupid you should at least try to give a reason.

Re: Snaps. Why? Please Stop

#49

Post by mike_hock »

idontknowwhynot wrote: post #45

snaps is starting to give me a headache. I installed chromium in my ubuntu and it installed it as a snap (even through apt, it just a transitional package that installs the snap.), and for some reason it has a dependency with cups (printing software). Every time i delete cups it is reinstalled..again and again, i couldn't find any solution.

> i couldn't find any solution

Ditch Ubuntu.

Re: Snaps. Why? Please Stop

#50

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

felixhammerl wrote: post #10

There are so many half baked takes, but this is my favorite: > There will always be a market for stable-over-latest software, especially for businesses. That market is called the nvd.nist.gov at best and 0 day brokers at worst. Why do people stil not accept the fix forward supremacy and patch their mess?

Because people aren't fond of things randomly breaking or forcing reconfiguration in order to get their security patches.
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