US Seeks More Than $4B from Binance to End Criminal Case • Hacker News Board

Re: US Seeks More Than $4B from Binance to End Criminal Case

#41

Post by JumpCrisscross » Mon, Nov 20, 2023, 9:32 PM UTC

wmf wrote: post #39

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the deal with the US gov lets the scam continue Outside America. Which, like, seems fine.

It's not really though. US people log in to Binance through VPNs and get scammed.

> US people log in to Binance through VPNs and get scammed

Literally the entire point of this case. DoJ seems to want CZ, personally, and for Binance to promise to root out Americans using it through a VPN. If they comply, the company can continue operating in others' markets while using the U.S. financial system.

Re: US Seeks More Than $4B from Binance to End Criminal Case

#42

Post by Scoundreller » Mon, Nov 20, 2023, 9:32 PM UTC

joshuaissac wrote: post #24

Scoundreller wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I’m reading, nobody ordered a plane out of the sky, but several countries (suddenly) excluded a plane from their sky. Of course, if you’re flying over a landlocked country, and every neighbour blocks you from their airspace, you don’t have many options. (Not that this quite happened, but looked to be going in that trajectory).

> nobody ordered a plane out of the sky, but several countries (suddenly) excluded a plane from their sky Suddenly withdrawing permission for a plane to fly through your sky, after it has already taken off and does not have enough fuel to take an alternative route, has the same effect as ordering it out of the sky.

Who said they didn’t have enough fuel for an alternative route? Their intended destination was Bolivia from Moscow. Can’t do that without a refuel ~midway. The next day they did a refuel in Canary Islands (Spain).

Re: US Seeks More Than $4B from Binance to End Criminal Case

#43

Post by JumpCrisscross » Mon, Nov 20, 2023, 9:32 PM UTC

CrzyLngPwd wrote: post #28

So, in the USA, you can do wrongs and then buy your way out of it, such that doing wrong and the resulting fines are just a cost of doing business however you see fit?

> you can do wrongs and then buy your way out of it

Did you miss the part where they're still wanting to criminally charge Zhao?

Re: US Seeks More Than $4B from Binance to End Criminal Case

#44

Post by oskarkk » Mon, Nov 20, 2023, 9:36 PM UTC

joshuaissac wrote: post #24

Scoundreller wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I’m reading, nobody ordered a plane out of the sky, but several countries (suddenly) excluded a plane from their sky. Of course, if you’re flying over a landlocked country, and every neighbour blocks you from their airspace, you don’t have many options. (Not that this quite happened, but looked to be going in that trajectory).

> nobody ordered a plane out of the sky, but several countries (suddenly) excluded a plane from their sky Suddenly withdrawing permission for a plane to fly through your sky, after it has already taken off and does not have enough fuel to take an alternative route, has the same effect as ordering it out of the sky.

Not exactly - in the Belarus case the plane was in the Belarusian airspace and had to land in Belarus (and then two passengers were arrested). If Belarus had revoked permission before the plane entered its airspace, and it had to land in Ukraine or Poland due to insufficient fuel, nothing would have happened to those passengers.

Re: US Seeks More Than $4B from Binance to End Criminal Case

#45

Post by LikesPwsh » Mon, Nov 20, 2023, 9:37 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #5

zoklet-enjoyer wrote: post #2

Why would they even negotiate with the United States? It's like if I ran an online business from the US who happened to have customers in Indonesia and I was breaking Indonesian laws. As long as I never planned on going to Indonesia, why would I care? Fun fact: many years ago I did run an online business and I did break laws in other countries that I never plan to go to. I never broke US law.

You may want to transit the airspace of the US or one of their allies in the future.

Dollar-denominated bank accounts are a bigger factor for binance.

Re: US Seeks More Than $4B from Binance to End Criminal Case

#46

Post by echelon » Mon, Nov 20, 2023, 9:58 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #31

rich_sasha wrote: post #8

I know this is how the US operates, still it's weird to trade cash for criminal allegations. Especially when Binance has been so vilified. I'm not defending Binance, rather, it feels like the SEC rhetoric went past the point where a fine is appropriate. Unless they are only proposing it so they can't be accused of not giving them the same treatment that everyone else gets.

> I know this is how the US operates, still it's weird to trade cash for criminal allegations. I would imagine that the US is not unique in either (1) making corporations liable for crime, or (2) having the principal sanction against the corporation itself for any crime be either monetary or a combination of monetary sanction and injunction or similar behavioral controls.

You can't imprison or kill [1] a company.

You can impose civil or criminal penalties on the directors, but the shareholders are also (perhaps rightly) punished when you impose fines.

A government can also seize a company's assets and redistribute them to recover costs, but in doing so you often dismantle the value.

[1] (At least not in the same way you can impose capital punishment on a human.)

Re: US Seeks More Than $4B from Binance to End Criminal Case

#47

Post by 0xDEADFED5 » Mon, Nov 20, 2023, 10:12 PM UTC

CrzyLngPwd wrote: post #28

So, in the USA, you can do wrongs and then buy your way out of it, such that doing wrong and the resulting fines are just a cost of doing business however you see fit?

I don't know why you're being downvoted, because the answer is mostly yes.

Re: US Seeks More Than $4B from Binance to End Criminal Case

#48

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Nov 20, 2023, 10:25 PM UTC

wmf wrote: post #39

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the deal with the US gov lets the scam continue Outside America. Which, like, seems fine.

It's not really though. US people log in to Binance through VPNs and get scammed.

[deleted]

Re: US Seeks More Than $4B from Binance to End Criminal Case

#49

Post by Yizahi » Mon, Nov 20, 2023, 10:43 PM UTC

CrzyLngPwd wrote: post #28

So, in the USA, you can do wrongs and then buy your way out of it, such that doing wrong and the resulting fines are just a cost of doing business however you see fit?

After a certain threshold, financial crime is rebranded as "lobbying" and is rewarded instead of punished.

Re: US Seeks More Than $4B from Binance to End Criminal Case

#50

Post by ender341341 » Mon, Nov 20, 2023, 10:52 PM UTC

Scoundreller wrote: post #37

arcticbull wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No need to go that far. The lack of an extradition treaty doesn’t preclude extradition. Instead of having a formalized process in place it would have to be done case by case. This is a common misconception about extradition treaties in general.

And sometimes you’re safe despite the existence of an extradition treaty. France has a bunch of extradition treaties but they’ll only let them be used against non-citizens.

A lot of countries will only really extradite non-citizens, especially the more powerful they are.