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Ford F-150 Lightning Breezes Up Obstacle Where Tesla Cybertruck Struggled

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Re: Ford F-150 Lightning Breezes Up Obstacle Where Tesla Cybertruck Struggled

#41

Post by syntaxing »

Disclaimer: I work for Ford but my opinion is of my own. I also got my Ford Escape before I was employed by them.

Me and my family were Japanese brand car drivers for over 2 decades. I got a Ford Escape PHEV, and Ford cars handling is probably one of the best I’ve driven (mind you, we only drive “middle class cars”, below 40K). I recently had to drive a Highlander for a week or two and going back to my Escape was night and day. The suspension and noise was clearly superior on the Highlander but everything else like acceleration and handling was superior on my Escape.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning Breezes Up Obstacle Where Tesla Cybertruck Struggled

#42

Post by brucethemoose2 »

sundvor wrote: post #8
HankB99 wrote: post #3

To my untrained (WRT off-roading) eye, I didn't see that much difference between the two. I also wonder how much difference there would be due to driver skill. And as mentioned in TFA, Ford has been making trucks a lot longer than Tesla.

To me it looked like the CT primarily used its rear motors here, and perhaps also didn't have a "crawl" mode (it'd be XDrive in Subaru speak, I guess) as it was kind of all or nothing. Traction control systems can be upgraded; it'll be interesting to see Tesla return serve on this one. FWIW I reckon 99.9% of these monster trucks will never see conditions like in this video. And that's being generous. Australia has so…

> Australia has some perverse tax incentives that are making them extremely popular

Yet another way Texas is kinda like a mini Australia. I suspect "mega pickup truck" prevalence is probably ahead of Australia. You almost have to see it to believe it.

...And yeah, I wonder what kind of TCS the Cybertruck does. It does have front/back differentials, right, or is it one motor per wheel?

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning Breezes Up Obstacle Where Tesla Cybertruck Struggled

#44

Post by whalesalad »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #39
whalesalad wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are vast parts of the country where your cell phone won’t even work. Good luck finding a charging station. Guess ya can bring your dongle and hope to find a wall plug somewhere but I’d imagine it would take quite a long time to charge. Off roaders carry extra fuel. Or worst case your buddy who is out with you will circle back to get fuel and come save you. Can’t really do that with an EV.

If no power, how would you have a gas station? You can always drop solar and batteries for a charging station. StarLink for remote telemetry and billing. https://cleantechnica.com/2023/04/30/a-new-solution-for-off-...

What are you gonna do at a gas station in buttfuck? Ask to borrow the wall plug? How do you pay for that? How long does it take to recharge without a dedicated wall charger or high power charging station?

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning Breezes Up Obstacle Where Tesla Cybertruck Struggled

#45

Post by gavin_gee »

All these comments about a lack of locking diff on the CT could be the reason but it seems that this capability can be achieved in software with motors on all 4 wheels. - you don't allow the motor/wheel to move at a different speed to another on the same axle.

Therefore this, to me at least, seems like an easy pathway for improvement for the CT.

And we have already seen, telsa has the best software team with companies like Ford with some of the worst. I know which vehicle I'd more likely expect to see updates for that actually improve the experience.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning Breezes Up Obstacle Where Tesla Cybertruck Struggled

#46

Post by giobox »

lolbase wrote: post #16

For context, this is a video of a traditional truck driving up the same hill: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptTwpkWQY_s And here's a Range Rover going up it: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/_00ah8lG4yk It seems like the CT doesn't have the equivalent of a locking diff, and had essentially no articulation. It'll be fine for the target demo (on-road usage). Both the Lightning and the CT clearly suffer from their weigh…

I wonder if the tri-motor CT models will be able to simulate a locked rear diff, much like the quad motor rivian models can simulate a locked diff front and rear thanks to being able to adjust torque to all four wheels individually. Only the rear axle of the CT would presumably be able to do this due to the tri-motor layout, unless they resort to the individual wheel braking like they've done on their road cars to simulate diff features. A rear only lock is still a useful offroading feature.

From what I've read, it doesn't sound like the quad motor "virtual" locked diff feature on the Rivian trucks works as well as a proper locking diff - its close but still slips occasionally. If I recall correctly their cheaper dual motor models don't have the feature either.

I imagine eventually the quad motor "virtual" locking diff solutions will probably get reasonably good, if Tesla decide to do a quad motor CT later.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning Breezes Up Obstacle Where Tesla Cybertruck Struggled

#47

Post by cgh »

tantalor wrote: post #33
whalesalad wrote: post #32

Honestly both are abysmal. Even the F-150 is slipping like crazy in areas where it shouldn't matter. Locking differentials are really required for this sort of thing - or a four wheel motor setup where a motor is dedicated to each wheel and can apply power equally. Afaik none of the EV trucks have a mechanical locker or even a limited slip? This might be as easy as a software update for both. Reducing tire pressures…

> No one is gonna be doing this sort of thing with an EV though. There is no charging infrastructure out in the boonies. You don't think people have access to electricity in these places...?

Often not. On hunting trips where I live, I'm away from all infrastructure on rough terrain for days at a time. I drive a Nissan Frontier and it grinds its way up steep logging roads for hours each day.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning Breezes Up Obstacle Where Tesla Cybertruck Struggled

#48

Post by brucethemoose2 »

grecy wrote: post #14
foobarian wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm with you, both trucks struggled a bit but made it to the top. Is this kind of driving an important use case though? I would think it would be more impressive to compare how these trucks handle towing trailers.

All trucks struggle to make it up that obstacle - the concrete is slick with sand and the lumps make it hard to get traction. There's plenty of videos of fully built Wranglers struggling more than the Cybertruck.

> fully built Wranglers

Some built up wranglers are not as impressive as they look. They can wade through a lake, but the suspension won't actually flex that much over rough terrain.

Of course, some are absolutely mad rock crawlers.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning Breezes Up Obstacle Where Tesla Cybertruck Struggled

#49

Post by jmtulloss »

whalesalad wrote: post #32

Honestly both are abysmal. Even the F-150 is slipping like crazy in areas where it shouldn't matter. Locking differentials are really required for this sort of thing - or a four wheel motor setup where a motor is dedicated to each wheel and can apply power equally. Afaik none of the EV trucks have a mechanical locker or even a limited slip? This might be as easy as a software update for both. Reducing tire pressures…

I do things like this from time to time with my Rivian. You're right that charging infrastructure is a challenge, but two things make a big difference:

- Lots of campgrounds have 30 or 50 amp plugs for RVs. Oftentimes off-road trips I go on start by everybody getting together at night so we can get an early start the next day. If you can meet near an RV campground (not always a great option), you can charge

- Most offroad trips are a relatively low number of miles. It can be pretty technical and you're trying to enjoy the time together. You can make it a lot of hours without spending a lot of miles

All that being said, I have been sweating it on the way to the nearest charger after getting off the trails.

Re: Ford F-150 Lightning Breezes Up Obstacle Where Tesla Cybertruck Struggled

#50

Post by toomuchtodo »

whalesalad wrote: post #44
toomuchtodo wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If no power, how would you have a gas station? You can always drop solar and batteries for a charging station. StarLink for remote telemetry and billing. https://cleantechnica.com/2023/04/30/a-new-solution-for-off-...

What are you gonna do at a gas station in buttfuck? Ask to borrow the wall plug? How do you pay for that? How long does it take to recharge without a dedicated wall charger or high power charging station?

Yes, gas stations in the middle of nowhere have let me use their 220V 30amps to charge. Campsites too. Billing can be automated with the current EV charging standard. You get about 5 miles of range per hour off a 120V 20A circuit.

https://supercharge.info/map

https://www.plugshare.com/

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