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To free the Baltic grid, old technology is new again

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41–50 of 169 posts

Re: To free the Baltic grid, old technology is new again

#42

> All nine of the Baltics’ synchronous condensers will have power-boosting flywheels, as she explains, equipping each installation with up to 2,200 megajoules of energy. Though 97% of that energy isn’t available to the grid as the name synchronous condenser implies.

I don't see how it implies that. In a DC power supply, for example, you can stick a regular capacitor (condenser) in parallel with the DC output and it will smooth out fluctuations in the voltage. The energy stored in that capacitor isn't available for you to use. You need the capacitor to stay charged so it can maintain the target voltage level. The only way to get a capacitor to be at a certain voltage is to charge it.

This is evidently something similar but for AC. It stabilizes the AC voltage / phase because its momentum pushes back against whatever tries to disturb it.

Re: To free the Baltic grid, old technology is new again

#43
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The clearest term IMO is synchronous capacitors. They are in effect large flywheels that can operate as both an electric motor and a generator. Over time they are a net power drain for the grid, but as parent says offer synthetic grid stability independent of power sources.

Why would anyone use the term 'capacitor' to describe what is basically an alternator, a flywheel & an electric motor?

It’s short term energy storage with rapid charge and discharge capabilities. Not all capacitors are electrolytic.

Re: To free the Baltic grid, old technology is new again

#44
The headline implies the Baltic states will have an independent electricity grid, but it's just switching dependence from Russia to the EU (for electricity) and the USA (for liquified natural gas imports).

Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia would be better off eliminating those dependencies entirely by focusing on expanding their domestic renewable energy production infrastructure.

Re: To free the Baltic grid, old technology is new again

#45

The headline implies the Baltic states will have an independent electricity grid, but it's just switching dependence from Russia to the EU (for electricity) and the USA (for liquified natural gas imports). Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia would be better off eliminating those dependencies entirely by focusing on expanding their domestic renewable energy production infrastructure.

[deleted]

Re: To free the Baltic grid, old technology is new again

#46
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this article is about using very high mass alternators to stabilize the grid's frequency

The clearest term IMO is synchronous capacitors. They are in effect large flywheels that can operate as both an electric motor and a generator. Over time they are a net power drain for the grid, but as parent says offer synthetic grid stability independent of power sources.

If we're going to use circuit terminology I think the physics of a flywheel are more like some kind of AC Inductor. DC Inductors resist changes in the flow of current, keeping current flowing even when circuit conditions change. It also helps that the parts of an inductor and flywheel that are in contact with the circuit/grid are coils of wire wrapped around an iron/magnetic core.

Re: To free the Baltic grid, old technology is new again

#47

Flywheels are underrated tech for both stability and decentralized energy storage. They should receive environmental funding just like solar and wind do.

Can you point to resources explaining why they're a good choice?

Because the general consensus seems to be that large things like pumped hydro are good for centralized energy storage, while batteries are the choice for decentralized energy storage -- whether in your utility closet or in your EV.

Why should anyone choose a flywheel over a battery?

Re: To free the Baltic grid, old technology is new again

#49
Since the article mentions the Kaliningrad exclave: what will actually happen with it once the Baltic states shut down the power lines to Russia? Then there will also be no way to transfer power from Russia to Kaliningrad - will they be forced to only rely on those power plants the article mentions?

Re: To free the Baltic grid, old technology is new again

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

References? Can you elaborate?

He is one of those Russian trolls who roams around HN telling that the slaves brought to the Americans should be thankful for the free trip they got. Except since they work on a different historic context, their vile nature gets lost on most readers.

Pre-WWII Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania were quite well developed small countries in Europe. Not on par with industrial powerhouses like the UK, but not the most undeveloped parts of Europe either. Estonia is a particularly notable example, since it shares lots of traits with Finland, comparing them is almost like a twins study. In 1938, Estonian and Finnish GDP per capita were very close, 3771 and 3589 dollars respectively.[1] Both were invaded by the USSR in 1939/40. Finland lost territory, but successfully fought Russians off and remained independent. Estonia was occupied by the USSR until 1991.

By 1995, the GDP per capita of Finland was 26 271 dollars, while Estonian GDP was 3134 dollars. In 2021, the Finnish GDP per capita was 53 489 dollars, while Estonian GDP had risen to 27 943 dollars.[2][3]

That's what 50 years of Russian rule does to a country - incredible economic stagnation, and then incredible rebound as soon as Russian tanks rolled out. In early 1990s, the average monthly wage in Estonia was 37 dollars. In 2023, it is 1800 dollars.

Russian trolls love to say how they "built the infrastructure", but they fail to mention that the natural pace of development would've been a much faster, like it is now.

And speaking of that "infrastructure", to a large degree it consisted of extremely polluting factories that produced uncompetitive garbage and went bankrupt as soon as free trade with rest of the world opened up. A great example of their "infrastructure" has been immortalized in Tarkovsky's sci-fi movie Stalker. The polluted wastelands with foaming rivers and white ebbs falling down like snow in summer weren't special effects. That was toxic waste from an upstream chemical plant that directed its waste unfiltered into a nearby river. Several crew members, including Tarkovsky himself, fell ill and died due to the poisioning received there.[4] Cleanup of such "infrastructure" continues to this day, 30 years later.

Beware of Greeks bearing gifts, and Russians building infrastructure.

[1] https://i.imgur.com/PolvBbR.jpg

[2] https://wits.worldbank.org/CountryProfile/en/Country/FIN/Sta...

[3] https://wits.worldbank.org/CountryProfile/en/Country/EST/Sta...

[4] https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/stalker-killed-andrei-tarkovsky...

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