It's only 120 employees.. Come on Tesla, do you have to prove how special you are?
Amazon is an interesting example: In Germany they insisted on paying their warehouse workers based on, but not boind by, Germany's collective bargained logistics agreement (Tarifvertrag) and not the retail one. On France, during the same time, they accepted the French retail agreement with the respective unions. Guess which one, retail or logistics, has the lower salaries in each country. That Tesla isn't even willin…
In Finland this is called "agreement shopping" and it's not exclusive to Amazon. Sadly happens all the time and unions seem to be losing the fight.
It's only 120 employees.. Come on Tesla, do you have to prove how special you are?
Amazon is an interesting example: In Germany they insisted on paying their warehouse workers based on, but not boind by, Germany's collective bargained logistics agreement (Tarifvertrag) and not the retail one. On France, during the same time, they accepted the French retail agreement with the respective unions. Guess which one, retail or logistics, has the lower salaries in each country. That Tesla isn't even willin…
Amazon avoided having to sign a collective agreement with a union in Sweden by outsourcing their business in Sweden to some other company. The workers in that company have a collective agreement. I guess some arrangement like this could work for Musk as well if he wants to save face and pretend like Tesla still never signs collective agreements?
It's a cartel shaking down a company, if that's organized labor it should be illegal.
OK. What if a company wants to close a plant, because it's not profitable enough? It's also an organized (corporate) action, so it must be disallowed?
One of those is a business decision about what to do with their private property the other is an external actor demanding what you do with your private property.
Good point. Sweden has better institutions and labor laws to reduce friction and enable cooperation. Enterprise bargaining in the US is more zero sum game between companies and workers. Everything you give to workers, reduces competitive edge against non-union competitors. It's in company interest to fight unions as much as possible. In sectoral bargaining , unions negotiate same deal with their counterparts represen…
I would also add that many (most?) European countries allow multiple unions in the same shop, with worker choice. Inter-union competition is important to keep unions honest and aligned with their workers. I think this more than anything else is responsible for the anti-union sentiment in the US.
This really helps. There are also other ways unions can be corrupt.
For example, the ILWU union allows its members to give their position to their children as an inheritance. It's literally a mafia ("family").
And of course, any random Joe can't just apply for a job with the ILWU. In rare cases where positions become available, they conduct a lottery.
The end result is that the ILWU-controlled ports are competing with each other for the coveted last place in the global Port Performance Index. Right now, it's held by the LA ports.
Unions are a good thing, definately right now when the competition from "slave owners" in eastern Europe, China etc will exploit workers and outrun competition that way. For Tesla, with China's export of electric vehicle it would be a good thing to "set the bar" and prevent low cost workers from entering the market - hence securing Tesla's position in Sweden. And that's what the "Swedish model" of working is all abou…
Not necessarily. They protect exploitation of the some of the workers, but often bring about abuse and host of other problems.
What do you think we should conclude from this? Is abuse more intrinsic to unions than it is to employers? What are the other problems?
If the doctor tells you that you need antibiotics to survive your infection, do you dwell on all the possible side effects, or do you just want to not die?
If this is not just being pendantic, it seems to imply that having no unions are better than having unions. Is that actually what you want to argue here? If not, what are you trying to contribute?
Good point. Sweden has better institutions and labor laws to reduce friction and enable cooperation. Enterprise bargaining in the US is more zero sum game between companies and workers. Everything you give to workers, reduces competitive edge against non-union competitors. It's in company interest to fight unions as much as possible. In sectoral bargaining , unions negotiate same deal with their counterparts represen…
I would also add that many (most?) European countries allow multiple unions in the same shop, with worker choice. Inter-union competition is important to keep unions honest and aligned with their workers. I think this more than anything else is responsible for the anti-union sentiment in the US.
I think, based on the anti-union talking points I see, the media is most responsible for anti-union sentiment, whether it's the normal corporate friendly mainstream media or classic films like On the Waterfront where union corruption is a side plot. Complimenting this are books, biopics, news stories, etc. of mythologized biographies portraying some business leaders as people who have pulled themselves up by their bootstraps, when they were really born into a privileged position (see: Gates, Musk, Zuck, etc.).
OK. What if a company wants to close a plant, because it's not profitable enough? It's also an organized (corporate) action, so it must be disallowed?
One of those is a business decision about what to do with their private property the other is an external actor demanding what you do with your private property.
One is a business decision, the other one is people exercising their rights.
Unions are a good thing, definately right now when the competition from "slave owners" in eastern Europe, China etc will exploit workers and outrun competition that way. For Tesla, with China's export of electric vehicle it would be a good thing to "set the bar" and prevent low cost workers from entering the market - hence securing Tesla's position in Sweden. And that's what the "Swedish model" of working is all abou…
Not necessarily. They protect exploitation of the some of the workers, but often bring about abuse and host of other problems.
Okay. “Abuse” and “other problems”. I’m convinced already.
And USA wonders why it has the world's highest incarceration rate, least cost-effective healthcare system, daily mass shootings, massive homeless population and declining life expectancy.