Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

especiales.eldiario.es

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 457 posts

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#41

Post by randsp »

bedobi wrote: post #20
flagged24 wrote: post #15

I'm okay with these high rises so I can enjoy the quiet tranquility of rural Spain. Everytime we do stay in an apartment in Spain the lack of sound proofing really stands out. Perhaps even more so because everything is tiled, no carpets.

was gonna comment the same :melting face: I'm an armchair urbanist and all about density, and in well built buildings it's fine, even with tiled floors you can't really hear your neighbors but in Spain it's as if the buildings are built with zero soundproofing - you hear every single neighbor in the whole building and their tvs, radios, conversations, footsteps... it's maddening, I don't understand it

I can confirm this. I am from Spain and I have lived in a few cities all around the country and the lack of soundproofing in every building is a common thing, regardless of town or area, it seems like all buildings from 1970 were built ignoring any sound proof.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#42

Post by schnitzelstoat »

bitwize wrote: post #13
whalesalad wrote: post #3

Different strokes for different folks. I’m a very happy single family home dweller. Living in a dense city feels claustrophobic.

The Anglosphere is more car dependent and more prone to NIMBY policies and housing shortages than continental Europe, because continental Europeans are more comfortable with density. Density is the solution to many land management problems.

Spain also has a housing crisis though.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#43

Post by brvsft »

Havoc wrote: post #33
flagged24 wrote: post #15

I'm okay with these high rises so I can enjoy the quiet tranquility of rural Spain. Everytime we do stay in an apartment in Spain the lack of sound proofing really stands out. Perhaps even more so because everything is tiled, no carpets.

Possibly also cultural. Noticed that some cultures tend to talk louder.

One time when I was younger, my mom was talking to my grandmother on the phone, in Spanish. I could hear my grandmother on the other end too. They're both yelling. No idea what they were talking about, but I had to ask, something to the effect of, "Mom, are you angry? Why are you and grandma yelling?"

Nope, nothing was wrong. That's just how they talk to each other in Spanish. Weird. It also never occurred to me why I didn't notice until whatever age I was, a teenager in high school. It never really occurred to me that they were always 'yelling' while talking to each other until that moment.

There is the possibility that they really were upset and yelling, but my mother didn't often keep things from me (at least not as far as I know). I also noticed the yelling afterwards, so I'm confident that was me simply realizing that's how they talked after years of not noticing.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#44

Post by jbellis »

bitwize wrote: post #13
whalesalad wrote: post #3

Different strokes for different folks. I’m a very happy single family home dweller. Living in a dense city feels claustrophobic.

The Anglosphere is more car dependent and more prone to NIMBY policies and housing shortages than continental Europe, because continental Europeans are more comfortable with density. Density is the solution to many land management problems.

OTOH continental Europe seems to be more prone to try to solve housing affordability with rent control, which basically results in NIMBY through the perverse incentives it imposes.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#45

Post by throwaway8877 »

flagged24 wrote: post #15

I'm okay with these high rises so I can enjoy the quiet tranquility of rural Spain. Everytime we do stay in an apartment in Spain the lack of sound proofing really stands out. Perhaps even more so because everything is tiled, no carpets.

Nowhere else I have seen a conversation to constantly erupt between total strangers than in Spain. They just can't. So I can imagine that this constant involvement in the lives of others might be not a problem for them.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#46

Post by anthk »

bertil wrote: post #34
coldcode wrote: post #7

Great analysis. I wonder if Spanish town planners have different powers than we do in the US. Town layouts are generally historical, you get to today by the sum of decisions potentially made decades or centuries or even millennia ago. It's very difficult to change a town layout drastically.

Powers are comparable, but people’s expectations are dramatically different for many reasons: * Climate: a shaded courtyard is pretty much necessary given the weather, for instance; * History: not only most city centers in Spain were built in the Middle Ages, but they were also built in the Arabic tradition of having fountains, slated blinds; * Economic: Spain grew economically a bit later than the US and the rest of…

Not all Spain has a Mediterranean climate.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#48

Post by globular-toast »

galangalalgol wrote: post #25
bedobi wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

was gonna comment the same :melting face: I'm an armchair urbanist and all about density, and in well built buildings it's fine, even with tiled floors you can't really hear your neighbors but in Spain it's as if the buildings are built with zero soundproofing - you hear every single neighbor in the whole building and their tvs, radios, conversations, footsteps... it's maddening, I don't understand it

Noise is the largest complaint my spouse has with dense buildings. I tune things out easily, but I also found myself self conscious about walking softly when I lived above people.

Me too. What's annoying is it seems hard to tell what it's going to be like before you actually move in.

I've lived in a few different flats in the UK, all purpose built flats. I already knew flats in converted houses are generally terrible. I've been in some where you can hear everything your neighbour is up to. I'm not sure what's worse: hearing them or knowing they can hear you too.

In two of them I could never hear a peep from the neighbours apart from footsteps on the floor upstairs. But seriously wondered if the neighbours ever made any noise at all, or whether it was just that well soundproofed.

In my most recent flat, though, it's terrible. You can hear conversations through the floor but what's worse is when people make direct contact with walls/ceilings, like closing curtains or closing doors, it's like they are in your room. And this is despite the building having solid concrete floors that appear to be over a foot thick.

I do also wonder if it was really an illusion as the first two flats were in noisier areas. But, whatever the reason, it's so hard to tell what it's going to be like before moving in. I wish there standards so you could guarantee what it's going to be like.

But until then, I will be seeking detached housing because I just can't stand the noise.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#49

Post by pja »

bedobi wrote: post #20
flagged24 wrote: post #15

I'm okay with these high rises so I can enjoy the quiet tranquility of rural Spain. Everytime we do stay in an apartment in Spain the lack of sound proofing really stands out. Perhaps even more so because everything is tiled, no carpets.

was gonna comment the same :melting face: I'm an armchair urbanist and all about density, and in well built buildings it's fine, even with tiled floors you can't really hear your neighbors but in Spain it's as if the buildings are built with zero soundproofing - you hear every single neighbor in the whole building and their tvs, radios, conversations, footsteps... it's maddening, I don't understand it

The Spanish just don’t seem to care about noise at the institutional level. I spent a week in a small Spanish city last year & the local rubbish collection went down the street outside the door, pouring bins full of bottles from the local bars in the back at midnight. Midnight! Just when even the Spanish are trying to get to sleep.

Co-incidentally, there was an article in the Spanish national press that week detailing all the ways in which noise in Spanish cities was deleterious to health & wellbeing and asking why no-one ever did anything about it. Constant noise just seems to be accepted as being an inevitable part of life, rather than something to be fixed.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#50

Post by prmoustache »

jansan wrote: post #9
capableweb wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed :) Living too far away from any metropolitan area makes me feel claustrophobic as there is usually very little social groups active in my favorite hobbies/niches unless near a city.

You really should look up the meaning of "claustrophobia"

As do the original commenter. Agoraphobia may be a better word in both cases.
Post reply on HN