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Young people would sacrifice other perks for a 4-day workweek

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Re: Young people would sacrifice other perks for a 4-day workweek

#41

Post by 13of40 »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #7

Young people don't want to work hard because there's little incentive. No matter how hard you work, unless you're in the top 5%, you're far priced out of most places most people want to live. You can afford everything comfortably beside housing & health care (which you don't need much of when you're young) on a relatively low wage in the US. So you've pretty much given up on housing. What's the point in working hard?

Probably the same as it's ever been. Out of three random employees, you have one who's just going through the motions, one who's working hard, and one who's actively hostile. Which one gets the money when review time rolls around?

That, and what's the long term strategy? Do they turn 30 and flip from working part time at Pizza Hut to a professional salaried career? Good luck getting an interview with that CV.

I'm not saying it's an ideal situation to be faced with, but tuning out is just going to make it worse.

Re: Young people would sacrifice other perks for a 4-day workweek

#42

Post by tansan »

dkdbejwi383 wrote: post #34
yardie wrote: post #12

Moving back to the US after living abroad I was used to month long holidays. I applied to a few companies and tried to negotiate 5 weeks PTO. They wouldn't budge. Then 4 weeks. Still no. I offered to drop my salary in exchange for vacation. Still no. I asked HR why everything else was negotiable except PTO and they told me I would have more time off then people who've been there for 7+ years. This was my first clue t…

I'm Australian but have lived in Europe for a long time. When I begin to consider moving back, one of the things that puts me off is that 4 weeks is pretty much universal in Australia, plus in Australia I think it's pretty standard to have a fixed number of days you're allowed to be sick. I'm too used to having 6 weeks holidays and essentially unlimited sick leave (as long as it's legitimately required). It's a more…

> It's a more grown-up arrangement where businesses realise that regular time off (and as much time as you need if ill) increases happiness and therefore productivity.

Is there a metric of some sort that I can share with other people that demonstrates 4 weeks PTO does work and has led to increased productivity in Australia?

I personally believe in shorter work weeks, but my experience is anecdotal, so was wondering if there was a study or some kind of economic metric that reflects that statement for increased productivity in AU.

Re: Young people would sacrifice other perks for a 4-day workweek

#43

Post by city41 »

devjab wrote: post #38

I had a 4 day workweek for a period of time after I got diagnosed with ADHD in a ripe age. Eventually bumped it back up to 5 days because it paid me 1/5 more. My efficiency, however, is around the same, or even slightly lower, than it was when I was working 4 days. Which isn't low enough to cause me any issues, but it's also sort of silly that I get paid more for the same/less solely due to spending more hours in the…

I did a 6 month stint with 4 day work days and I noticed the same thing. I think I was more productive when I had that added day of rest and yeah they paid me 1/5 less. I didn't mind the pay cut because I was much happier. It's pretty amazing what an extra day of rest does for you.

Re: Young people would sacrifice other perks for a 4-day workweek

#44

Post by paulcole »

potatoman22 wrote: post #15
hombre_fatal wrote: post #3

I took a $50k job in my late 20s just for full remote with no calls/meetings, just Github issues and a chat app for synchronization. I felt pathetic accepting the offer especially after my counteroffer was rejected (imagine your bluff failing here, lmao), but I remembered sitting in meetings for a higher paying job fantasizing about how I'd give half my salary away just to have no meetings and living on a beach surfi…

Was it worth it? How'd they keep their commitment to no calls/meetings? I'd be worried about the employer reneging on that.

When I negotiate with someone on something like this, I make it (relatively) painful for the company to break the rule.

Full day pay bonus if we text/call someone on a non-scheduled work day, no matter how trivial the issue and no matter if they pick up or reply. So we don’t get a guarantee that the issue is resolved and they’re not obligated to help (if they do, they also get paid for working that day, obviously).

Re: Young people would sacrifice other perks for a 4-day workweek

#45

Post by tommoor »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #24
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #7

Young people don't want to work hard because there's little incentive. No matter how hard you work, unless you're in the top 5%, you're far priced out of most places most people want to live. You can afford everything comfortably beside housing & health care (which you don't need much of when you're young) on a relatively low wage in the US. So you've pretty much given up on housing. What's the point in working hard?

So you're not going to be able to live where most people want to live . That's far different from having no house. "Giving up on housing" is not the right answer. "Start small and work your way up", like most of us did. See, when you hit 20, you're looking at your parents, and you're seeing them when they're 45 or 50. You're not seeing them when they were 20. You expect that you're going to be able to live like they…

My dads first house cost less than his first car, bought around the same time.

Re: Young people would sacrifice other perks for a 4-day workweek

#46

Post by agravier »

dkdbejwi383 wrote: post #34
yardie wrote: post #12

Moving back to the US after living abroad I was used to month long holidays. I applied to a few companies and tried to negotiate 5 weeks PTO. They wouldn't budge. Then 4 weeks. Still no. I offered to drop my salary in exchange for vacation. Still no. I asked HR why everything else was negotiable except PTO and they told me I would have more time off then people who've been there for 7+ years. This was my first clue t…

I'm Australian but have lived in Europe for a long time. When I begin to consider moving back, one of the things that puts me off is that 4 weeks is pretty much universal in Australia, plus in Australia I think it's pretty standard to have a fixed number of days you're allowed to be sick. I'm too used to having 6 weeks holidays and essentially unlimited sick leave (as long as it's legitimately required). It's a more…

I work for an Australian company in Australia and they'll give me paid sick leave beyond the standard allowance if I need it. But I agree that it'd be better if that was a right.

Re: Young people would sacrifice other perks for a 4-day workweek

#47

Post by VeejayRampay »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #7

Young people don't want to work hard because there's little incentive. No matter how hard you work, unless you're in the top 5%, you're far priced out of most places most people want to live. You can afford everything comfortably beside housing & health care (which you don't need much of when you're young) on a relatively low wage in the US. So you've pretty much given up on housing. What's the point in working hard?

maybe young people don't want to work hard because history has proven time and time again that "working hard" doesn't make you happy, it's actually the opposite and they have now come to realize that balance is key?

Re: Young people would sacrifice other perks for a 4-day workweek

#48

Post by slashdev »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #7

Young people don't want to work hard because there's little incentive. No matter how hard you work, unless you're in the top 5%, you're far priced out of most places most people want to live. You can afford everything comfortably beside housing & health care (which you don't need much of when you're young) on a relatively low wage in the US. So you've pretty much given up on housing. What's the point in working hard?

It's not for everybody, but if you can find a way to not play the rigged game, you can get ahead.

I moved from a high cost of living city in North America to Latin America. I bought a two floor penthouse overlooking the ocean for less than the price of a two bedroom apartment back where I came from. My mortgage is -$2000 / month. That's right, negative $2000 because I save the full mortgage payment plus an extra $2000 on taxes each month, completely legally and above board.

Now not everything is sunshine and roses (well there is a lot of both, but you know what I mean). The price is I have to work remotely, I had to learn a new language, and Amazon delivery is more like two weeks than 2 days and the shipping is not free. There are definitely things that I miss, but nothing compared to what I gain.

Re: Young people would sacrifice other perks for a 4-day workweek

#49

Post by vladvasiliu »

onion2k wrote: post #32
yodsanklai wrote: post #27

I negociated a 4-day workweek for my first job when I was 23. 25 years later, I wouldn't do it. I'm worried for my retirement, I don't think I'll have enough saving to live in a safe and convenient place, and have access to good healthcare. This is the type of things you don't think of when you just graduate and are used to the student worklife.

A 4 day work week is not '4 days work for 80% of the money'. A 4 day work week today means working 4 days a week for the same money as a person working 5 days a week. Depending on the company that's either 10 hours a day for 4 days a week, or more commonly it's an 8 hour day for 4 days a week with an assumption (proven in many studies) than people work harder with less downtime for that 8 hours so consequently get th…

> A 4 day work week today means working 4 days a week for the same money as a person working 5 days a week

Sure, but you'll have even less hope for a salary increase next year, since this is basically what it is.

This was the theory behind France's move to the 35-hour workweek, too. They also expected companies to hire more people to compensate for less work being done. Didn't work out as expected.

Re: Young people would sacrifice other perks for a 4-day workweek

#50

Post by TwoFerMaggie »

SamuelAdams wrote: post #25

If they (or you, or anyone) want a 4 day work week, then why not pick a profession that allows it? Most healthcare related fields work in 12 hour shifts, so working 3-4 days a week is the normal standard. Not every professional job is an office job 9-5.

What point does this argument hold besides "it's what we do now so we don't change it"? Same thing could be argued when five-day work weeks were first proposed.
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