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Lemming Suicide Myth: Disney Film Faked Bogus Behavior

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Re: Lemming Suicide Myth: Disney Film Faked Bogus Behavior

#41

Post by consumer451 »

the_af wrote: post #38

Disney is an extreme offender here (I mean, dropping lemmings off a cliff, what where they thinking?), but I hear some of what we "know" about animals is sometimes an honest mistake and may be the result of an involuntary artifacts of researcher involvement. Don't know if it's true, but a couple of examples I've read: It's not true that wolves live in "packs" and that there are alpha and beta males. In truth wolves f…

Yes, the Alpha Wolf myth appears to be a very damaging slice of b.s.

https://phys.org/news/2021-04-wolf-dont-alpha-males-females....

Re: Lemming Suicide Myth: Disney Film Faked Bogus Behavior

#42

Post by jojobas »

erickhill wrote: post #14

"Lemmings do not commit mass suicide. It's a myth, but it's remarkable how many people believe it." The sensational Amiga puzzle video game called "Lemmings" helped perpetuate the idea, too. :)

But in the game the lemmings don't commit mass suicide, at least if the player is any good. Worst case, some lemmings are left behind for the common cause.

Re: Lemming Suicide Myth: Disney Film Faked Bogus Behavior

#43

Post by Jensson »

the_af wrote: post #36
somenameforme wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article mentions that, "If they get wet to the skin, they 're essentially dead." Reading the Wiki on them, they're quite a bizarre little species in countless ways. Highly recommended. [1] [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemming

Maybe I'm wrong but I read that to mean that if they get completely soaked in extreme winter weather, they'll die. This doesn't seem so bizarre. Some animals, both mammals and birds, have some protection against this because their hair/feathers are both greasy and help them keep "air cushions" that prevent water from completely soaking the body -- but if that ever happens in cold weather the animal is as good as dead…

Animals used to the winter survives being wet, at least large ones like moose, they fall through the ice from time to time and people help them up. Maybe lemmings are so small that it wasn't worth evolving it, but it seems like a big handicap since most animals needs to drink regularly even in the winter.

Re: Lemming Suicide Myth: Disney Film Faked Bogus Behavior

#44

Post by PeterStuer »

I remember walking the Norwegian mountain trails in late summer in a 'lemming year'. The lemming population explosion is so ridiculous you had to constantly look at your feet to avoid stepping on them, both live ones that sometimes puff their chests and make a big scene, as well as corpses littered all over the path.

Re: Lemming Suicide Myth: Disney Film Faked Bogus Behavior

#46

Post by vintermann »

the_af wrote: post #36
somenameforme wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article mentions that, "If they get wet to the skin, they 're essentially dead." Reading the Wiki on them, they're quite a bizarre little species in countless ways. Highly recommended. [1] [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemming

Maybe I'm wrong but I read that to mean that if they get completely soaked in extreme winter weather, they'll die. This doesn't seem so bizarre. Some animals, both mammals and birds, have some protection against this because their hair/feathers are both greasy and help them keep "air cushions" that prevent water from completely soaking the body -- but if that ever happens in cold weather the animal is as good as dead…

Yes, they can swim well and they have thick fur, I don't think jumping into a lake is inherently suicidal for them.

They are, however, in lemming years, not very afraid of predators and will even stand up and squeak furiously at you if you get close. I knew of a dog who would walk up to them, watch their tantrum display with interest, and then just chomp them up.

I think maybe that's where the "suicidal" idea comes from.

Re: Lemming Suicide Myth: Disney Film Faked Bogus Behavior

#47

Post by whoopdedo »

I've always suspected that the myth is due to the Bible. Mark 5:11-13

> Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding. And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them. And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand;) and were choked in the sea.

As noted, migrating lemmings will congregate at the edge of a cliff where some unfortunate clumsy ones will fall off. Someone seeing this would surely be reminded of the Bible passage and be tempted to imagine the creatures had been driven to suicide by demons.

Re: Lemming Suicide Myth: Disney Film Faked Bogus Behavior

#48

Post by Lio »

Jeff_Brown wrote: post #16
pricci wrote: post #13

> The lemmings supposedly committing mass suicide by leaping into the ocean were actually thrown off a cliff by the Disney filmmakers. I guess the 50s where different times

In westerns they would tie cables to horses' legs at the right length so that they would fall in the right place as if they had been shot.

Yep the infamous “Running W” stunt. Tarantino’s talked about that quite a bit.

Obviously the horse breaks its leg and then has to be put down. Pretty vile.

So every take they’d end up killing a horse.

Re: Lemming Suicide Myth: Disney Film Faked Bogus Behavior

#49

Post by Lio »

jojobas wrote: post #42
erickhill wrote: post #14

"Lemmings do not commit mass suicide. It's a myth, but it's remarkable how many people believe it." The sensational Amiga puzzle video game called "Lemmings" helped perpetuate the idea, too. :)

But in the game the lemmings don't commit mass suicide, at least if the player is any good. Worst case, some lemmings are left behind for the common cause.

You can persuade the little tykes to blow themselves up pretty easily though.

Re: Lemming Suicide Myth: Disney Film Faked Bogus Behavior

#50

Post by Jensson »

Lio wrote: post #48
Jeff_Brown wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In westerns they would tie cables to horses' legs at the right length so that they would fall in the right place as if they had been shot.

Yep the infamous “Running W” stunt. Tarantino’s talked about that quite a bit. Obviously the horse breaks its leg and then has to be put down. Pretty vile. So every take they’d end up killing a horse.

> So every take they’d end up killing a horse.

Horrible, but maybe not as expensive as it sounds, cgi of similar quality costs much more than a horse.

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