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Tell HN: Automatic fraud detection is making my life hell

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Re: Tell HN: Automatic fraud detection is making my life hell

#41
post #16

Another workaround: As far as Google Play is concerned just create new accounts and add them to your phone. I have this setup because I end up having to download region blocked Australian, UK and German apps.

Doesn't that then put you at risk of Google's anti fraud measures, which, in my opinion, is much more difficult to work around? At least with your bank you can call them and eventually get it resolved.

I ask because I've thought of doing this but have always been worried Google would not only shut that account down but my main one as well.

Re: Tell HN: Automatic fraud detection is making my life hell

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found that notifying my providers of upcoming moves eliminates this. Call them, tell them what you're doing and ask their advice (b/c there may be something you overlooked or they may have special problems of their own). Anyway, they're doing you a service and notifying them is good etiquette. And like good etiquette, it often greases the wheels of commerce.

That does help a bit with the banks, but I've not had any luck at all with the stores who cancel my orders after the payment goes through. They refuse to budge, assuming I even get a response, and won't give me any information about why my orders are cancelled, citing more vague security reasons. I did have success with a privacy.com card once, at a store that cancelled orders from all of my other cards. I'm guessing…

Neither my bank nor my credit card company even want pre-notification at this point and don't provide a way to do it at this point. I admittedly haven't had issues either internationally or in the US for quite a few years at this point, but I always carry a varied set of credit cards when traveling.

Re: Tell HN: Automatic fraud detection is making my life hell

#43

I move to random corners of the world every 2-3 years and this is starting to give me real anxiety every time I try to make a purchase. One of my credit cards makes me jump through all of the verification and "Was this really you?" messages, then still locks my account half the time. So many online stores will approve my purchase and bill the card with no issue, then cancel it a few hours later for vague security rea…

I found that notifying my providers of upcoming moves eliminates this. Call them, tell them what you're doing and ask their advice (b/c there may be something you overlooked or they may have special problems of their own). Anyway, they're doing you a service and notifying them is good etiquette. And like good etiquette, it often greases the wheels of commerce.

> I found that notifying my providers of upcoming moves eliminates this.

you seem to be older. I used this too. Until 5 or so years ago. Now my bank just says i "don't have to notify them anymore as they don't have this in the system, since it is all automated for my convenience"

Re: Tell HN: Automatic fraud detection is making my life hell

#44
I wholeheartedly support digitization, having been involved in the realms of development, system administration, and everything computer-related since my early days. However, what irks me is when I'm bound to use products or services from providers who fail to execute their roles properly despite being compensated for it.

A recent incident at my child's school serves as a pertinent example. They transitioned from a traditional cash-based food delivery system to a new digital platform. While trying to register on this platform, I was prompted to provide an "email". I input my usual email address only to be met with an "invalid email" response. After multiple back-and-forths with both the school and the platform's support, I discovered that by "email", they actually meant a "Gmail account".

For context, I've been using my own domain for my email, which ends in .international, for over a decade now—longer than my 9-year-old child has been alive. Despite this, they deemed my email domain "new". The situation reached a head when the school's principal called me, trying to understand the issue. After explaining the situation, he assured me that the problem was on my end, stating that he had consulted with other teachers and they were in agreement that ".international" wasn't a "real platform".

Re: Tell HN: Automatic fraud detection is making my life hell

#45

You do understand India is a country with huge number of scammers who targets US people, and they are causing US billions of dollars of damage [1] each year? Sure, you might not be a criminal, but how would these companies know? Plus, since you mention "gift card", you do know that scammers use gift cards to launder money, right? India doesn't put heavy hammer on scammers for various reasons. For example, since the s…

Your comment takes an (unfair IMO) position that it somehow matters what country the OP was in. It's not like the auth systems are designed for higher scrutiny in specific countries. There is more than one way to confirm identity, but somehow BigTech and Co keep assuming a happy path environment for you. Case in point: my US bank insists on sending an OTP to my US number (and US number alone) for any transaction, mak…

I worked in the payment card industry for awhile a few years back. There are entire countries that are blocked by card providers due to fraud.

Unfair or not, it actually makes a difference. I was in a neat position to see some of the attempts in real time. It blew me away how much attempted fraud there is. Think of it like spam email - it's that bad.

Re: Tell HN: Automatic fraud detection is making my life hell

#46
> if my card was already accepted once and I successfully approved the payment via 3D secure with my bank, who are you (as a random online service) to assume you can act as my big brother? Even more, if I'm using a balance paid by gift card, who give Amazon or other services the right to put my account on hold while it still contains my hard earned money[?]

There are many payment methods around the world that have different rules, but for Visa, MC, and Amex cards issued by American banks, the merchant, not the card issuer, has the liability to repay fraudulent on-line purchases (so-called "card not present" transactions). The merchant is the one accepting the risk, not your bank. So they decide which transactions they will accept liability for and which they will decline and what you need to do to prove that their liability is low.

In addition, some second-factor systems (like possibly 3D secure) shift the liability from the merchant to the issuer when passed, but banking rules are arcane, and it is likely that 3D secure only shifts the liability for the one transaction that triggered it, and not any subsequent transactions.

Re: Tell HN: Automatic fraud detection is making my life hell

#48

You do understand India is a country with huge number of scammers who targets US people, and they are causing US billions of dollars of damage [1] each year? Sure, you might not be a criminal, but how would these companies know? Plus, since you mention "gift card", you do know that scammers use gift cards to launder money, right? India doesn't put heavy hammer on scammers for various reasons. For example, since the s…

Laundering money using 100-200$ gift cards?

Absolutely. Walmart used to have a policy of refunding gift cards in cash. You'd buy many at one location, and return them at another. Less trackable. Gift cards are also used quite regularly in human/sex trafficking to control the victims.

Re: Tell HN: Automatic fraud detection is making my life hell

#49
I only have two data points (well, three now with OP): but I susped this is on purpose.

BR and CN both are painful for me for this reason. Try to use a credit card, they will try to SMS a phone number I haven't used in my bank for 3 or more years.

Now that OP tells us about IN i'm starting to see a pattern: for a fraud and insurance company, or being realistic, the payment processor middle man who offers those services at a loss, making their client lose a few sales while pushing their customers (you) to instant electronic payments (BR:pix, IN:UPI, CN:IBPS etc) is a much better deal (for the middle man)!

Re: Tell HN: Automatic fraud detection is making my life hell

#50

You do understand India is a country with huge number of scammers who targets US people, and they are causing US billions of dollars of damage [1] each year? Sure, you might not be a criminal, but how would these companies know? Plus, since you mention "gift card", you do know that scammers use gift cards to launder money, right? India doesn't put heavy hammer on scammers for various reasons. For example, since the s…

Your comment takes an (unfair IMO) position that it somehow matters what country the OP was in. It's not like the auth systems are designed for higher scrutiny in specific countries. There is more than one way to confirm identity, but somehow BigTech and Co keep assuming a happy path environment for you. Case in point: my US bank insists on sending an OTP to my US number (and US number alone) for any transaction, mak…

> sending an OTP to my US number (and US number alone) for any transaction, making it impossible for me to move money when abroad

Strictly speaking it doesn't make it impossible. You have made a choice not to pay roaming fees while using your USA number while abroad.

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