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Signal commit Username Integration Test

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Re: Signal commit Username Integration Test

#41

Post by vel0city »

codedokode wrote: post #38
msh wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a feature. You get an instant social graph by being able to piggyback on people’s contacts. Also the original purpose of signal was secure sms, so using phone numbers make perfect sense.

I meant in Telegram you don't need to share your phone number with your contants or members of a public chat you've joined. While in WhatsApp or Signal your contacts know your number and can easily find out your identity and where you live if you write something they don't like.

I use Signal to talk to friends and family. Everyone I message on Signal are people who already know where I live.

Re: Signal commit Username Integration Test

#42

Post by Krasnol »

codedokode wrote: post #35
Krasnol wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bringing up Telegram in this context makes it quite funny, since Telegram users seem not to care about the safety of the contents of their chats at all in this shady black box. Phone numbers are a quite ridiculously small problem compared to that.

No. If you join a public chat in Telegram you don't have to share your phone number with other members so you don't have to be afraid that they will find you in real life. You can write anything you want. But with WhatsApp or Signal you have to share a phone number with everyone which means they can easily find who you are and where you live (this data is cheaply sold on black market).

Your group chats go into a black box unencrypted. You don't know what happens to it because it's not E2E. You also gave your phone number to this shady company who runs those servers which keep everything you wrote.

Even Whatsapp is better than this.

And what is that phone number fetish? It's not like it is some magic identifier. There are bots out there testing every number out there and sending you SNS spam. Your phone number is worthless.

As far as I remember, you can still find people on Telegram by searching for phone numbers. Isn't there even an automatic discovery feature?

The Telegram salt around those announcements seems like the final cry of Telegram fans to me because after that, there is absolutely nothing which would even remotely paint Telegram as a safe or secure messenger. Especially because everybody know why you are on Telegram. It's a different use case. I talk on Signal to people I know personally. They already have my number. People I know go on Telegram for porn and piracy over here. They still have Whatsapp or Signal to talk to their friends and family. They actually are ashamed that they have Telegram because everybody here know why they have it ;)

Re: Signal commit Username Integration Test

#43

Post by transcriptase »

tech_ken wrote: post #34
codedokode wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With WhatsApp or Signal, if you want to talk to a stranger (e.g. if selling something) you have to share your real number, while in Telegram you can share just a username.

> selling something Whatcha selling :) To coordinate my own anonymous commodity transactions I just use gpg to encrypt a .txt which can be delivered in all sorts of anonymous ways. I can't say that I transact anonymously too frequently though, so the additional friction with this method isn't especially onerous.

Post something like a prom dress for sale online and observe the messages you get from weird perverted men.

Then ask yourself if they should have a sellers real phone number.

Re: Signal commit Username Integration Test

#44

Post by TaylorAlexander »

tech_ken wrote: post #34
codedokode wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With WhatsApp or Signal, if you want to talk to a stranger (e.g. if selling something) you have to share your real number, while in Telegram you can share just a username.

> selling something Whatcha selling :) To coordinate my own anonymous commodity transactions I just use gpg to encrypt a .txt which can be delivered in all sorts of anonymous ways. I can't say that I transact anonymously too frequently though, so the additional friction with this method isn't especially onerous.

I regularly talk to Chinese vendors selling robot parts who want to talk over WhatsApp. This is ultimately fine for me but it’s an example of a scenario where I don’t really want to give anything more personal than necessary.

Re: Signal commit Username Integration Test

#45

Post by [deleted] »

msh wrote: post #37
codedokode wrote: post #10

Signal is finally copying what Telegram has implemented since long ago? Do people in the West simply do not care about hiding their number (judging by WhatsApp and Signal)?

It’s a feature. You get an instant social graph by being able to piggyback on people’s contacts. Also the original purpose of signal was secure sms, so using phone numbers make perfect sense.

[deleted]

Re: Signal commit Username Integration Test

#46

Post by tech_ken »

transcriptase wrote: post #43
tech_ken wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> selling something Whatcha selling :) To coordinate my own anonymous commodity transactions I just use gpg to encrypt a .txt which can be delivered in all sorts of anonymous ways. I can't say that I transact anonymously too frequently though, so the additional friction with this method isn't especially onerous.

Post something like a prom dress for sale online and observe the messages you get from weird perverted men. Then ask yourself if they should have a sellers real phone number.

But why not just use an email address or something for that case? I get how it would be ideal (and myself desire) to have one messaging tool which works in all cases, but it doesn't seem like a massive failure specifically of Signal to not work for this usage. Certainly not one large enough to warrant the torrent of comments I see any time Signal gets mentioned on HN

Re: Signal commit Username Integration Test

#47

Post by codedokode »

Krasnol wrote: post #42
codedokode wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. If you join a public chat in Telegram you don't have to share your phone number with other members so you don't have to be afraid that they will find you in real life. You can write anything you want. But with WhatsApp or Signal you have to share a phone number with everyone which means they can easily find who you are and where you live (this data is cheaply sold on black market).

Your group chats go into a black box unencrypted. You don't know what happens to it because it's not E2E. You also gave your phone number to this shady company who runs those servers which keep everything you wrote. Even Whatsapp is better than this. And what is that phone number fetish? It's not like it is some magic identifier. There are bots out there testing every number out there and sending you SNS spam. Your p…

In WhatsApp or Signal your number is visible and anyone in a public group can know who you are and burn down your house if you write something they didn't like. Yes, Telegram knows your number and your messages but it is unlikely that they will give them out to random weirdo^W manly person with strong sense of injustice.

Re: Signal commit Username Integration Test

#48

Post by tczMUFlmoNk »

msh wrote: post #37
codedokode wrote: post #10

Signal is finally copying what Telegram has implemented since long ago? Do people in the West simply do not care about hiding their number (judging by WhatsApp and Signal)?

It’s a feature. You get an instant social graph by being able to piggyback on people’s contacts. Also the original purpose of signal was secure sms, so using phone numbers make perfect sense.

Signal has an interesting article describing how, while contact discovery allows users to populate an instant social graph, Signal's servers still do not have access to that information, even as they send "so-and-so is now on Signal!" notifications:

https://signal.org/blog/private-contact-discovery/

Of course, they have the ability to push a new client that hoovers up whatever they want, especially with their time-bomb policy of preventing old clients from sending messages until they're updated. But I was impressed by the lengths that they go to to build this privacy-preserving contact discovery service. I was especially interested to see their use of remote attestation "for good" and to preserve privacy and freedom, rather than systems like DRM and WEI that seek to compromise those.

Re: Signal commit Username Integration Test

#49

Post by tech_ken »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #44
tech_ken wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> selling something Whatcha selling :) To coordinate my own anonymous commodity transactions I just use gpg to encrypt a .txt which can be delivered in all sorts of anonymous ways. I can't say that I transact anonymously too frequently though, so the additional friction with this method isn't especially onerous.

I regularly talk to Chinese vendors selling robot parts who want to talk over WhatsApp. This is ultimately fine for me but it’s an example of a scenario where I don’t really want to give anything more personal than necessary.

Sure that makes sense to me, however I will say that if I was a vendor selling stuff internationally I probably would want (and even require, depending on export controls) some level of de-anonymization on the buyer's part. Presumably at the very least you need to provide a shipping address to receive the goods, which is no less identifying or difficult to spoof than a phone number.

Re: Signal commit Username Integration Test

#50

Post by sabellito »

andy81 wrote: post #14
codedokode wrote: post #10

Signal is finally copying what Telegram has implemented since long ago? Do people in the West simply do not care about hiding their number (judging by WhatsApp and Signal)?

The mobile number requirement was always a feature of signal. The friction is slight for users, but higher for scammers that might go through thousands of accounts. Telegram is too easy to sign up, so it's mostly scams.

Never had any scam messages on telegram, but get ~1 per month on whatsapp.
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