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Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health

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Re: Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health

#41

Post by WalterBright »

scaramanga wrote: post #23
btilly wrote: post #5

This is something that free range parenting advocates have been talking about for a long time. See https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/09/03/6412565... . For me one of the most compelling data points wasn't even a parenting reference. It was https://www.amazon.com/Millionaire-Next-Door-Surprising-Amer... . First published in the mid-1990s, the chapters on the children of millionaires found that the more su…

I'd love to read the papers cited there without having to buy that book. I wonder if what is defined as "support" is actually, meddling, undermining, and pressurzing children into fulfilling the parents needs.

> without having to buy that book

You can get the book for $2.74:

https://www.amazon.com/Millionaire-Next-Door-Surprising-Amer...

Unless there is some other reason you don't want to buy it?

Re: Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health

#42

Post by Apocryphon »

lelanthran wrote: post #39
earthscienceman wrote: post #3

Wait. Does this pass for science in these fields, psychology and medicine? They summarize various statistics from prior papers as if they are trends across space and time (hello sample bias, are there papers that contradict their claims they are omitting because it doesn't fit their thesis?) and then make broad conclusions based on anecdotal evidence and sweeping theories. This should barely pass as a "kids these day…

> Does this pass for science in these fields, psychology and medicine? They summarize various statistics from prior papers as if they are trends across space and time (hello sample bias, are there papers that contradict their claims they are omitting because it doesn't fit their thesis?) and then make broad conclusions based on anecdotal evidence and sweeping theories. I feel that if you've never heard of a meta-stud…

crustscienceman

Re: Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health

#43

Post by caconym_ »

b112 wrote: post #25
Apocryphon wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all bike paths exist in quiet suburbs. Some exist along busy main roads, which make them dangerous even for adult riders.

That's not really a bike path, now is it? It's a painted lane on a road. I've never been in a place where I had to take a "busy main road" to get around locally. Cross it sometimes, sure, which can be done at a light. This sort of highlights the problem. Over-protectiveness, by examining the worst that can happen, and the worst scenario.

I've been riding in a big west coast city for the better part of two decades, and I have definitely not been able to rely on dedicated bike paths (or even multimodal "trails") to get around. I mostly ride in the road, and often in the car lane rather than a paint-separated bike lane when I judge that the latter is unsafe (can happen for various reasons but mostly conflicts with cars turning right, pulling out, etc.).

Despite that, I've avoided bad accidents and generally felt pretty safe, but only because I survived long enough to develop an acute intuition for when drivers are about to do something stupid/illegal/dangerous. Previous and contemporaneous experience driving a car on the same streets was also very important. I would not trust these streets with my daughter's safety on a bike, and I honestly won't trust her to read the idiots' minds until she has some experience doing so from inside a heavy steel cage.

Riding within neighborhoods like the one I live in now is a different question, though some people do drive quite fast through here, and the size of the typical modern car makes clearances and sight-lines rather tight. I do see a lot of older kids out on their own walking, often to and from school, which I think is great.

Re: Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health

#44

Post by Tade0 »

adrianN wrote: post #11

How are children in car-centric societies supposed to be independent when they need adults to drive them to places?

I see it as a scapegoat. The real reason is this:

https://d2eehagpk5cl65.cloudfront.net/img/q60/uploads/assets...

According to this poll from 2014, 43% Americans think that the government should require 12-year-olds to play at public parks under supervision.

You could create the most walkable neighbourhood in the world and not achieve much in this regard.

Re: Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health

#45

Post by SkyPuncher »

adrianN wrote: post #11

How are children in car-centric societies supposed to be independent when they need adults to drive them to places?

I had plenty of access to play without driving anywhere.

I spent hours and hours playing on my driveway and in my yard with minimal supervision.

Re: Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health

#46

Post by amrocha »

SkyPuncher wrote: post #45
adrianN wrote: post #11

How are children in car-centric societies supposed to be independent when they need adults to drive them to places?

I had plenty of access to play without driving anywhere. I spent hours and hours playing on my driveway and in my yard with minimal supervision.

I hope you see how sad that statement is. Kids in truly free places ride the train around the entire city by themselves.

Re: Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health

#47

Post by johnnyworker »

scaramanga wrote: post #19
baron816 wrote: post #2

The Coddling of the American Mind is a good book on this topic https://www.thecoddling.com/ .

It's on a different topic. ie. That if people speak up for themselves, or they want to address unfairness or inequality in their society, it's because their parents hugged them when they cried as babies, instead of ignoring them, or whatever you're supposed to do to "toughen them up" (ie. turn them into terrified adults, washed up in middle age, who see any new youth movement as a life-threatening trend that must be…

> it's because their parents hugged them when they cried as babies, instead of ignoring them, or whatever you're supposed to do to "toughen them up"

Where have I heard that before..

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/harsh-nazi-parent...

> In "The German Mother and Her First Child", Haarer wrote, “It is best if the child is in his own room, where he can be left alone.” If the child starts to cry, it is best to ignore him: “Whatever you do, do not pick the child up from his bed, carry him around, cradle him, stroke him, hold him on your lap, or even nurse him.”

Re: Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health

#48

Post by eielhejesfoest »

lelanthran wrote: post #39
earthscienceman wrote: post #3

Wait. Does this pass for science in these fields, psychology and medicine? They summarize various statistics from prior papers as if they are trends across space and time (hello sample bias, are there papers that contradict their claims they are omitting because it doesn't fit their thesis?) and then make broad conclusions based on anecdotal evidence and sweeping theories. This should barely pass as a "kids these day…

> Does this pass for science in these fields, psychology and medicine? They summarize various statistics from prior papers as if they are trends across space and time (hello sample bias, are there papers that contradict their claims they are omitting because it doesn't fit their thesis?) and then make broad conclusions based on anecdotal evidence and sweeping theories. I feel that if you've never heard of a meta-stud…

Are the personal attacks necessary? Don’t use yourself as a reference point for everyone else’s experience, that’s a very privileged thing to do.

Re: Decline in independent activity as a cause of decline in child mental health

#49

Post by eielhejesfoest »

uoaei wrote: post #7
earthscienceman wrote: post #3

Wait. Does this pass for science in these fields, psychology and medicine? They summarize various statistics from prior papers as if they are trends across space and time (hello sample bias, are there papers that contradict their claims they are omitting because it doesn't fit their thesis?) and then make broad conclusions based on anecdotal evidence and sweeping theories. This should barely pass as a "kids these day…

You've evidently never heard of a meta-analysis.

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