What SWE job hunting is like right now • Hacker News Board

Re: What SWE job hunting is like right now

#41

Post by fallat » Sat, Oct 14, 2023, 4:38 PM UTC

gustavus wrote: post #31

garlandkey wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4 years experience at 140k is an insult IMHO. You claim you can easily find ppl w 5+ years experience, but I find that claim dubious. What you're willing to pay and what value we add seem to be vastly different.

Wow that's quite the high and mighty response. I have about 10 years experience across multiple domains and can program across a dozen languages. You know what my salary sits around 150k. You're attitude reflects part of the problem. There are a bunch of still relatively new people or especially boot camp grads that were sold on the always unrealistic expectation of making $150k right out of the gate. That was always…

Thank you.

Re: What SWE job hunting is like right now

#42

Post by hn_throwaway_99 » Sat, Oct 14, 2023, 4:38 PM UTC

garlandkey wrote: post #23

cj wrote: post #16

As a hiring manager for a relatively small company, a major problem is misaligned salary expectations. Real world example: I recently interviewed an engineer hit by layoffs at Shopify/UPS. The candidate had 4 years of total work experience, and was making $175k in the role that she was let go from, and they won’t accept anything less when looking for a new role. With 4 years of total experience in the workforce. I wo…

4 years experience at 140k is an insult IMHO. You claim you can easily find ppl w 5+ years experience, but I find that claim dubious. What you're willing to pay and what value we add seem to be vastly different.

I mean, your response basically proves the point of the comment you are responding to.

First, salaries are still local, so 140k may be an "insult" in some places, but not in others.

But more importantly, this is the market at work. If the recruiter can get talent for what she's willing to pay, more power to her. If the ex-shopify person can get a comparable job for 175k, more power to them.

But there is an adjustment to be had. The free money spigot has dried up for many companies, and so the salaries of the past 5ish years are in for a reckoning.

Re: What SWE job hunting is like right now

#43

Post by zdware » Sat, Oct 14, 2023, 4:40 PM UTC

garlandkey wrote: post #30

cj wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t argue with your viewpoint. All I can say is there are a lot of people with 10-15 yrs experience who will happily accept $140-150k with 10+ yrs experience in the US remote market (more specifically full stack node/react)

I will change my opinion if you can provide evidence beyond anecdotes. Honestly, it helpful information if it's backed up my facts.

I think it's unrealistic for someone to post "evidence" in this case. Not worth the risk of doxing/etc. Think all we can do is take people at their word, or explore the market ourselves and get data from our own experiences.

Re: What SWE job hunting is like right now

#44

Post by and0 » Sat, Oct 14, 2023, 4:40 PM UTC

anonreeeeplor wrote: post #36

cj wrote: post #16

As a hiring manager for a relatively small company, a major problem is misaligned salary expectations. Real world example: I recently interviewed an engineer hit by layoffs at Shopify/UPS. The candidate had 4 years of total work experience, and was making $175k in the role that she was let go from, and they won’t accept anything less when looking for a new role. With 4 years of total experience in the workforce. I wo…

My opinion is DEI hires are way out of whack with the market. Low skilled / low talent in many cases and lower competence but in a ZIRP environment I saw so many situations where women and minorities were hired and given leadership roles, with massively streamlined hiring processes. When the bottom line doesn’t matter these kinds of hires really proliferated. I wonder if we will see a hard reset back to competence as…

$180k within four years is more than reasonable if you get into FAANG. I've had plenty of kids right out of college asking for $140k and getting it from other companies, and this was 5 years ago, so within four years of typical ZIRP job hoping I'd say that's relatively normal.

Please don't assume anyone is hired for diversity reasons. That's really awful.

Re: What SWE job hunting is like right now

#45

Post by cj » Sat, Oct 14, 2023, 4:41 PM UTC

anonreeeeplor wrote: post #36

cj wrote: post #16

As a hiring manager for a relatively small company, a major problem is misaligned salary expectations. Real world example: I recently interviewed an engineer hit by layoffs at Shopify/UPS. The candidate had 4 years of total work experience, and was making $175k in the role that she was let go from, and they won’t accept anything less when looking for a new role. With 4 years of total experience in the workforce. I wo…

My opinion is DEI hires are way out of whack with the market. Low skilled / low talent in many cases and lower competence but in a ZIRP environment I saw so many situations where women and minorities were hired and given leadership roles, with massively streamlined hiring processes. When the bottom line doesn’t matter these kinds of hires really proliferated. I wonder if we will see a hard reset back to competence as…

I don’t think the salary level was due to diversity.

I think it was due to the person being hired by a hyper growth VC backed startup which was acquired by UPS/Shopify (who then went on a cost cutting campaign post-acquisition)

Re: What SWE job hunting is like right now

#46

Post by lylejantzi3rd » Sat, Oct 14, 2023, 4:42 PM UTC

greatpostman wrote: post #26

cj wrote: post #16

As a hiring manager for a relatively small company, a major problem is misaligned salary expectations. Real world example: I recently interviewed an engineer hit by layoffs at Shopify/UPS. The candidate had 4 years of total work experience, and was making $175k in the role that she was let go from, and they won’t accept anything less when looking for a new role. With 4 years of total experience in the workforce. I wo…

120k is bottom of the barrel wages.

It's nowhere near.

Re: What SWE job hunting is like right now

#47

Post by BeetleB » Sat, Oct 14, 2023, 4:43 PM UTC

garlandkey wrote: post #30

cj wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t argue with your viewpoint. All I can say is there are a lot of people with 10-15 yrs experience who will happily accept $140-150k with 10+ yrs experience in the US remote market (more specifically full stack node/react)

I will change my opinion if you can provide evidence beyond anecdotes. Honestly, it helpful information if it's backed up my facts.

> I will change my opinion if you can provide evidence beyond anecdotes.

It is noteworthy that you did not provide any.

Adding to the anecdotes: Plenty of people in my company with 5+ years of experience make less than $150K.

Re: What SWE job hunting is like right now

#48

Post by zmgsabst » Sat, Oct 14, 2023, 4:43 PM UTC

gustavus wrote: post #31

garlandkey wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4 years experience at 140k is an insult IMHO. You claim you can easily find ppl w 5+ years experience, but I find that claim dubious. What you're willing to pay and what value we add seem to be vastly different.

Wow that's quite the high and mighty response. I have about 10 years experience across multiple domains and can program across a dozen languages. You know what my salary sits around 150k. You're attitude reflects part of the problem. There are a bunch of still relatively new people or especially boot camp grads that were sold on the always unrealistic expectation of making $150k right out of the gate. That was always…

[dead]

Re: What SWE job hunting is like right now

#49

Post by lylejantzi3rd » Sat, Oct 14, 2023, 4:44 PM UTC

anonreeeeplor wrote: post #32

I have been interviewing. Everyone is confused right now. Hiring companies are confused. Recruits are confused. My opinion is we are at a severe dislocation period. I have noticed massive changes in the emerging skills, tools and platforms. Pretty much no code, low code and AI. Everything else looks useless or outdated. Meanwhile, tons of startups and big tech companies are dying and laying off. The skills those peop…

What skills do you think are in demand?

Re: What SWE job hunting is like right now

#50

Post by and0 » Sat, Oct 14, 2023, 4:45 PM UTC

gustavus wrote: post #31

garlandkey wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4 years experience at 140k is an insult IMHO. You claim you can easily find ppl w 5+ years experience, but I find that claim dubious. What you're willing to pay and what value we add seem to be vastly different.

Wow that's quite the high and mighty response. I have about 10 years experience across multiple domains and can program across a dozen languages. You know what my salary sits around 150k. You're attitude reflects part of the problem. There are a bunch of still relatively new people or especially boot camp grads that were sold on the always unrealistic expectation of making $150k right out of the gate. That was always…

The market is the market, for better or worse. I do think SWE are overvalued socially/monetarily, but I don't see why you're so emotional over someone saying they deserve what they can get. Or if they make more than you if they can swing it.