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Calorie restriction in humans builds strong muscle and stimulates healthy aging

nih.gov

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Re: Calorie restriction in humans builds strong muscle and stimulates healthy aging

#41

Post by livueta »

tayo42 wrote: post #23
livueta wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting - guess that hasn't percolated through to my traditional powerlifting-ish circles yet. I'd love to read/watch anything on this you've found useful.

Idk the bro science i always heard, for at least 10 to 15 years, suggests that strength is alot of stuff like neurons firing. You can take time off from lifting and get back to it pretty quick. Size from body building is mostly targeting hypertrophy, breaking down muscle and have then regrow to be larger. Strength and size would normally correlate but couldn't get someone's strength just from their size.

Oh yeah, no doubt about that. I've observed the same picking back up after injuries, and some version of this whole thing is ultimately what's backing the concept of cutting. Definitely not trying to say that mass equals power or anything. I'm just trying to zero in on the gains while not at surplus thing, because ime I can lift all day but don't gain (as measured by increasing lift capacity) jack shit unless I also eat big. I don't particularly love bulking and cutting, though, so I was kinda hoping there was a trick I was missing.

Re: Calorie restriction in humans builds strong muscle and stimulates healthy aging

#42

Post by Schiendelman »

StanislavPetrov wrote: post #38

> One study showed that individuals on calorie restriction lost muscle mass and an average of 20 pounds of weight over the first year and maintained their weight for the second year. However, despite losing muscle mass, calorie restriction participants did not lose muscle strength, indicating calorie restriction improved the amount of force generated by each unit of muscle mass, called muscle specific force. If peopl…

I'm not sure of your math. I weigh 180 at 5'9". That's well under obese. If I lost 20 pounds, I'd be just under the midline of healthy.

Re: Calorie restriction in humans builds strong muscle and stimulates healthy aging

#43

Post by fortran77 »

zen928 wrote: post #36
fortran77 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my favorite studies, an oft-replicated and cited study, tracks several hundred people who claimed to be "diet resistant". Using a technique invloving "doubly-lableled water" they were able to determine that every single person in the study who claimed to be diet resistant was overreporting their exercise and underreporting their calorie intake: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejm199212313272701 Of cours…

Is it supposed to be surprising that someone having weight issues would have issues reliably tracking the impacts of actions that would lead to their weight? Have any similar "favorite studies" on hand about alcoholics who underreport alcohol use and overreport abstaining? Punching down is a favorite pastime of mine too btw :)

> Have any similar "favorite studies" on hand about alcoholics who underreport alcohol use and overreport abstaining?

Thank you for your genuine concern! Unfortunately, I don't. I track weight loss studies because I had struggled with weight gain and obesity. I am fortunate to have never had a problem with alcohol. I hope you can find the help you need.

Re: Calorie restriction in humans builds strong muscle and stimulates healthy aging

#44

Post by bratwurst3000 »

hardwaresofton wrote: post #16

> They found that during a two-year span, the goal for participants was to reduce their daily caloric intake by 25%, but the highest the group was able to reach was a 12% reduction This feels like something the royal we should be talking about as well. It’s clearly really difficult to restrict calories/eat less in the US. It’s unclear if this is a US only phenomenon or not but I wouldn’t be surprised if it were.

Little anecdote… my friends and I are mostly from Europe and travel a lot and eat food from all over the world… we are mostly not fat. So the only country where we gain weight without doing anything else are the USA. It’s like magic. And yes it’s the food and you people don’t walk anywhere. Not even a block. Still love your culture.

Re: Calorie restriction in humans builds strong muscle and stimulates healthy aging

#45

Post by firecall »

livueta wrote: post #5

I did a bit of a double-take at the headline because it seems to imply that one can grow stronger while calorie-restricted, which is contrary to common practice around strength development - caloric surplus is generally understood to be necessary for muscle growth. I've only read the abstract, but the title as I interpreted it seems misleading: > One study showed that individuals on calorie restriction lost muscle ma…

I was part of 9 month University weight loss study.

I had a Dexa scan before and after. As well as various other ultrasounds, physical tests and blood tests.

I lost weight and gained muscle according to the Dexa scan!

No other changes to my general exercise. I wasn’t weight training or doing cardio. Just walking and day to day stuff.

Re: Calorie restriction in humans builds strong muscle and stimulates healthy aging

#46

Post by sfn42 »

hanniabu wrote: post #19
idopmstuff wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wrestling seems like exactly the wrong thing to cite here, since it's generally not done in openweight, and if you're wrestling in traditional weight classes then what's described here is hugely beneficial - you can drop a weight class but not lose strength.

Also your opponent would have an advantage of you being lighter, which affects the results

Normally in weight classed sports, people cut and dehydrate etc so that they are just inside the weight class they want to be in.

In other words, if they didn't cut they wouldn't be meeting that opponent at all because they would be in a different weight class.

Re: Calorie restriction in humans builds strong muscle and stimulates healthy aging

#47

Post by sfn42 »

knodi wrote: post #24

Does any one find hard to eat a lot of protein (150g) in a 8 hour feeding window? I hate to live off of protein shacks.

If you want 150 grams of pure protein that's about 500g of chicken meat. Other things have protein as well so you could probably bump it down to 400 and have some other stuff like rice and veggies on the side.

Thats a pretty big meal but if you split it in two and have 8 hours between them it's really not that much. Doesnt seem like it should be a problem.

Re: Calorie restriction in humans builds strong muscle and stimulates healthy aging

#48

Post by sfn42 »

nogbit wrote: post #34
knodi wrote: post #24

Does any one find hard to eat a lot of protein (150g) in a 8 hour feeding window? I hate to live off of protein shacks.

Why 8hr? For the entire day eat 5 times and 200 plus grams is very doable. I only have one scoop of whey, and sometimes a bar, but everything else is lean Protein or carbs and fat that also have protein (oats, pb, yogurt)

Intermittent fasting. I don't know if there are any real documented benefits but anecdotally fasting is pretty nice. I often feel very energized and clear headed while fasting.

Re: Calorie restriction in humans builds strong muscle and stimulates healthy aging

#49

Post by sfn42 »

lemming wrote: post #37
woleium wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s quite a contentious question, there aren’t that many good studies, and they are difficult to do well

It’s really not: https://examine.com/guides/protein-intake/ . There is tons of quality research quoted on examine.com, and the results around protein are very conclusive. The short answer is that the recommendations are for much higher protein intake than most people think, and than most standard food will give you.

That site you linked says people with active lifestyles can need as much as 3g/kg, if you weigh 80kg that's 240g of protein a day.

Re: Calorie restriction in humans builds strong muscle and stimulates healthy aging

#50

Post by sfn42 »

Schiendelman wrote: post #42
StanislavPetrov wrote: post #38

> One study showed that individuals on calorie restriction lost muscle mass and an average of 20 pounds of weight over the first year and maintained their weight for the second year. However, despite losing muscle mass, calorie restriction participants did not lose muscle strength, indicating calorie restriction improved the amount of force generated by each unit of muscle mass, called muscle specific force. If peopl…

I'm not sure of your math. I weigh 180 at 5'9". That's well under obese. If I lost 20 pounds, I'd be just under the midline of healthy.

Yeah they're pretty far off.
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